Windows vs Unix/Linux culture

Article: Hot Chips XXI Preview
By: JasonB (no.delete@this.spam.com), August 23, 2009 7:31 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Richard Cownie (tich@pobox.com) on 8/23/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>Agreed. Actually the synchronization overhead can be as
>low as you feel like making it: you can have a small
>block of shared memory for synchronization, and do a
>user-space spinlock. That aspect isn't fundamentally
>different from lightweight threads.

Sure, if you go down the shared memory route then you end up writing almost exactly the same code as a threaded implementation with just a different "default" assumption (threads: data is shared by default, steps need to be taken to allocate thread-local storage[*]; processes: data is independent by default, steps need to be taken to allocate shared storage).

However a different default assumption alone doesn't buy you much if you consider writing correct and safe threaded code to be too difficult unless your perceptions are coloured by widespread and reckless use of global variables. (A no-no in our shop; we only have a few read-only status variables that are initialised during program startup.)

[*] In MSVC the easiest way to declare a variable thread-local using a declspec:

__declspec(thread) int tls_i = 1;

Of course all the local variables are thread-local as well.

>My pipe example just
>showed that even doing it in the dumbest most straightforward
>way possible isn't prohibitively slow.

For some cases, yes. Not all. As I said, there are cases where the performance penalty of using separate processes means the parallel implementation is not worth it. You're the one who tried to minimise the importance of those cases, despite them representing a large proportion of the cases we have encountered. I have repeatedly said that using separate processes represents the ideal case to be used when circumstances allow.

>Jason's claim that serialize/deserialize makes it slow
>also seems very dubious. Fundamentally, the serialize/
>deserialize needs to do a hashtable lookup for each pointer,
>and simply copy other data directly. Obviously the
>hashtable lookups will make it slower than merely copying,
>but not massively slower - maybe 10x, but nowhere near
>1000x. Possibly the claim arises because most serialize/
>deserialize code is only designed and optimized to match
>the bandwidths of disks or 100Mbit Ethernet.

Excuse me, but before calling my claims "dubious" please make sure you understand what I said.

I never said that serialisation/deserialisation was a thousand times slower than a straight copy. Most of our serialisation/deserialisation is a straight copy! The way we're implemented it we don't even need to mess around with preserving pointers because nothing retains a pointer to anything it doesn't own.

What I did say was that it would need to be about a thousand times faster to compete with not having to copy it at all.

>The real weakness is in having to know in advance all
>the data structures that could be accessed, and to copy
>them all.

That's also a huge burden. You've stated many times how much effort is required to revisit the assumptions of a large codebase stretching back 15 years while at the same time advocating a sweeping change like this.

Using threading I can look at a tiny part of the code, analyse it, and thread it safely with minimal changes. I can do this bit-by-bit over time, finding the next best operation to parallelise and implementing it.

To do it your way I would have to be in a position to predict all the ways I might want to slice and dice the data in future if I want to avoid having to go through the whole process every time I wanted to parallelise a certain operation, which would be tricky since different operations really want to partition the data in different ways.

>That undoubtedly puts a constraint on the
>kind of algorithms that will parallelize in this way.

Exactly.

>But I believe it will work out just
>fine for many of the problems I'm interested in - with
>run-times of many hours, shooting for computation
>granularity of 5mS or greater leaves room for a heck of
>a lot of granules.

I have never said that your problems aren't of the category that are amenable to multiprocessing. I have no idea, I've never seen them. What I've been responding to are your claims about the value of multithreading.

Some of our operations are sufficiently course-grained that parallel computation is worthwhile. Most are not. If we restricted ourselves to only the former category we would be sacrificing a significant performance advantage that justifies a higher price for our software than our competitors'.

>Also let's note that threading doesn't make you immune
>to the problem of compute-communication ratio: if your
>thread really does access 25MB of data (or at least,
>locations in enough cache lines to add up to 25MB of cache
>lines), then you don't actually get that data for free -
>it's going to take significant time to get into the
>L1 cache of the worker thread. It only looks great if
>there's 25MB of data that you *might* access, and in fact
>you only access a small fraction of it.

As I already said, modern processors are very good at hiding latency when you aren't bandwidth constrained.

Consider the case I mentioned: the processor is accessing shared data at a rate of no more than a few hundred MB/sec, and each access is surrounded by quite a few computations. There is also a high probability that the next work item will be very close to recent work items, enhancing the effectiveness of the caches. The data that is being shared is read-only for this operation, meaning the caches won't need to be flushed all the time due to dirty data. During processing, pretty much all of the shared memory will be accessed by at least one thread (although we can't predict by which, because that depends on the results of the computation), and probably several.

That means that although all 25-100 MB of data will ultimately be read by the CPU(s), the cost of doing so will be very effectively hidden in a way that physically copying it up-front into each memory space cannot. Furthermore, having one complete copy of the data in memory for each process not only wastes memory but decreases the effectiveness of the caches.

(In case you're wondering, this operation repeats itself many times with new shared data at each iteration.)

So the next step is to use shared memory instead, and, as I said, now you're doing exactly the same sort of analysis that would be required if you were using threading. The only difference is the default status of global variables, and minimising the use of global variables has been in our coding standard for a very long time.

BTW, I did forget one feature of C++ that does help with threading, and that's const, because if something isn't being modified during the execution of the parallel operation then things become much simpler. Our code has been const-correct for a long time because I'm a great believer in putting all your assumptions into the code so the compiler can check them for you. (It can also help the optimiser, in theory.)

Of course const can be defeated by const_cast (easy to search for) and standard C-style casts (very hard to search for, which is why they're prohibited under our coding guidelines), as well as mutable. If you remove the constness of an object (and the only justification I can think of is so it can cache a computation so the only difference to the outside world is how quickly it returns a result) then it's up to you to ensure that access to the mutable portion is thread-safe if it's ever used by threaded code.
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                                              Speculation and wasteanon2009/08/19 01:52 AM
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                                          How much IPCanon2009/08/18 01:27 AM
                                How much IPCanon2009/08/16 09:05 PM
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                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 05:32 AM
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                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 07:22 AM
                                                                limits of sorting_Arthur2009/08/18 07:57 AM
                                                                  limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 08:30 AM
                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 08:45 AM
                                                                    limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 08:50 AM
                                                                      limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 09:09 AM
                                                                        limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 09:33 AM
                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 09:53 AM
                                                                            limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 10:28 AM
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                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/18 05:40 PM
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                                                                                        You work on EDA right Richard?David Kanter2009/08/19 07:26 AM
                                                                                          You work on EDA right Richard?Richard Cownie2009/08/19 07:47 AM
                                                                                            You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/19 08:52 AM
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                                                                                                You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/19 10:36 PM
                                                                                                  You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/19 10:45 PM
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                                                                                                    You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/20 05:32 AM
                                                                                          You work on EDA right Richard?Aaron Spink2009/08/19 11:08 PM
                                                                                          You work on EDA right Richard?Rob Thorpe2009/08/20 07:31 AM
                                                                                            You work on EDA right Richard?David Kanter2009/08/20 08:58 AM
                                                                                              You work on EDA right Richard?Rob Thorpe2009/08/20 03:10 PM
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                                                                                    limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/18 10:11 PM
                                                                                      limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/18 10:25 PM
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                                                                                        limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/19 06:12 AM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/19 06:46 AM
                                                                                        limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/19 07:43 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 06:47 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 07:20 PM
                                                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 10:12 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/21 01:08 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 04:15 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/22 05:24 PM
                                                                                                      limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/22 06:27 PM
                                                                                                        limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/22 07:39 PM
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                                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/23 04:53 AM
                                                                                                            limits of sortinganonymous2009/08/23 10:42 AM
                                                                                                              useful link, thanksRichard Cownie2009/08/23 04:23 PM
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                                                                                                        limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/23 08:26 AM
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                                                                                                                      thanksAndi Kleen2009/08/25 10:28 AM
                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresanon2009/08/25 02:34 PM
                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresAndi Kleen2009/08/25 09:25 PM
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                                                                                                                exceptiona reader2009/08/25 06:32 AM
                                                                                                                  exceptionRichard Cownie2009/08/25 06:57 AM
                                                                                                                    exceptionPotatoswatter2009/08/25 07:30 AM
                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/25 07:56 PM
                                                                                                                  correctionJasonB2009/08/25 08:47 PM
                                                                                                                    correctionc++2009/08/26 08:53 AM
                                                                                                                      correctionJasonB2009/08/26 06:48 PM
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                                                                                                                      correctionPotatoswatter2009/08/27 06:52 AM
                                                                                                                        correctionc++2009/08/27 08:29 AM
                                                                                                                          comeau bugs and gcc featuresPotatoswatter2009/08/27 08:51 AM
                                                                                                                            comeau bugs and gcc featuresPotatoswatter2009/08/27 10:28 AM
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                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 12:27 AM
                                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresMichael S2009/08/28 05:05 AM
                                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/28 05:45 AM
                                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 06:50 AM
                                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 03:56 PM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 04:55 PM
                                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 06:44 PM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresKonrad Schwarz2009/09/07 03:24 AM
                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/26 02:22 PM
                                                                                                                    wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/26 05:47 PM
                                                                                                                      wacky C++ featuresJukka Larja2009/08/26 11:03 PM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 12:17 AM
                                                                                                                      wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/27 02:26 PM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 05:31 PM
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                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureMichael S2009/08/21 07:07 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/21 07:33 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 03:12 AM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/21 10:18 PM
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                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/21 11:48 PM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 03:25 AM
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                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 07:13 AM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux culturerwessel2009/08/24 02:09 PM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/22 04:28 PM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/22 05:22 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/22 05:52 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/22 06:47 PM
                                                                                                        EncapsulationKonrad Schwarz2009/09/03 03:49 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulationanon2009/09/03 09:05 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulation?2009/09/03 10:38 AM
                                                                                                          EncapsulationAndi Kleen2009/09/04 12:41 AM
                                                                                                            Encapsulationanon2009/09/04 06:24 AM
                                                                                                            EncapsulationRichard Cownie2009/09/04 06:34 AM
                                                                                                              EncapsulationKonrad Schwarz2009/09/07 02:28 AM
                                                                                                                EncapsulationRichard Cownie2009/09/07 03:04 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux culture?2009/09/03 10:51 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureno thanks2009/08/23 09:36 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/23 03:23 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 07:31 PM
                                                                                                            Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/23 11:10 PM
                                                                                                              Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJukka Larja2009/08/24 09:13 PM
                                                                                                              Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/24 10:35 PM
                                                                                                                Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/25 02:04 AM
                                                                                                                  Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/25 10:48 PM
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                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/26 09:31 PM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 07:43 AM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/26 12:48 PM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 02:28 PM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/26 07:06 PM
                                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/27 02:44 AM
                                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRob Thorpe2009/08/27 04:51 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 08:07 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureno thanks2009/08/23 08:44 PM
                                                                                                            Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 11:34 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/23 08:46 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 06:59 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 08:27 AM
                                                                                              limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 07:55 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 10:22 PM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 11:15 PM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 03:47 AM
                                                                                              limits of sorting?2009/08/20 10:42 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 06:51 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/21 07:11 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 07:38 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingdmsc2009/08/20 06:56 PM
                                                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 07:20 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/20 07:09 AM
                                                                              limits of sortingAaron Spink2009/08/19 11:19 PM
                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 12:55 AM
                                                          limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 06:12 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/18 06:55 AM
                                                          limits of sortingrwessel2009/09/08 01:52 PM
                                                            maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyEmil2009/09/08 06:06 PM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyrwessel2009/09/08 09:04 PM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/09 03:56 AM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/09 08:10 AM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/10 04:39 AM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/10 07:05 AM
                                                                    maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyPotatoswatter2009/09/10 12:23 PM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencydmsc2009/09/13 07:04 AM
                                                      limits of sortingPotatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 05:07 PM
                                                        indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Potatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 05:12 PM
                                                          indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 12:01 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/22 06:25 AM
                                                          limits of sortingPotatoswatter2009/08/22 07:45 AM
                                                          limits of sortingDavid Kanter2009/08/22 09:16 AM
                                                            limits of sortingJouni Osmala2009/08/22 11:01 AM
                                                              Oops that was counting sort not bucket sort ;(Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 11:07 AM
                                                                close enough for my purposeshobold2009/08/22 01:15 PM
                                                            select vs. cmovehobold2009/08/22 01:25 PM
                                              How much IPCGian-Carlo Pascutto2009/08/18 02:25 AM
                                                How much IPCVincent Diepeveen2009/08/19 05:46 AM
                                                  How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/19 08:32 AM
                                              How much IPChobold2009/08/18 03:17 AM
                                                How much IPCMichael S2009/08/18 04:33 AM
                                                  How much IPChobold2009/08/18 06:35 AM
                                              How much IPC?2009/08/18 11:20 AM
                                                How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 11:33 AM
                                                  Nit pickingDavid Kanter2009/08/18 01:17 PM
                                                    Nit picking_Arthur2009/08/18 01:37 PM
                                                      Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 02:02 PM
                                                        Nit pickingS. Rao2009/08/18 04:02 PM
                                                          Nit pickinganon2009/08/19 02:03 AM
                                                    Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 01:53 PM
                                                      Nit pickingJasonB2009/08/18 06:16 PM
                                                  How much IPC?2009/08/18 01:37 PM
                                                    How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 03:23 PM
                                                      How much IPCMatt Sayler2009/08/18 05:09 PM
                                                      How much IPC?2009/08/18 10:59 PM
                                  nick's testcasea reader2009/08/17 04:47 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 09:00 AM
                                  Explicit dependency chainsDavid Kanter2009/09/30 06:56 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 09:00 AM
                              How much IPChobold2009/08/17 05:38 AM
                            How much IPCanon2009/08/16 08:59 PM
                            Speeing Up Single ThreadsTruePath2009/09/27 07:58 AM
                      How much IPCanon2009/08/15 07:01 PM
                        How much IPCEduardoS2009/08/16 06:06 AM
                        How much IPCsJ2009/08/16 08:48 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 02:26 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/14 03:04 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 02:43 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 03:08 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 03:33 PM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/22 07:57 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJukka Larja2009/08/22 10:04 PM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 11:33 AM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/21 11:51 PM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 09:56 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/22 10:38 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/23 03:05 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/23 03:28 AM
                          Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 05:48 AM
                            Programming LarrabeeEduardoS2009/08/23 06:41 AM
                              Programming Larrabeeanon2009/08/23 07:29 AM
                            Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 06:47 AM
                              Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/23 08:11 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 11:49 PM
                              Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 08:59 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 11:44 PM
                                Programming Larrabeehobold2009/08/24 05:41 AM
                                  Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/24 07:15 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/24 07:33 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeJukka Larja2009/08/24 09:30 PM
                                      Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/25 01:53 AM
                            Programming Larrabeempx2009/08/25 08:16 AM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJoe2009/08/24 08:38 AM
            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingGabriele Svelto2009/08/14 03:35 AM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 08:18 AM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/14 04:34 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 06:30 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 07:23 AM
                improving NetburstAM2009/08/15 01:36 AM
                  improving Netburstanon2009/08/15 07:10 AM
                    improving NetburstEuronymous2009/08/15 08:35 AM
                    improving NetburstMichael S2009/08/15 01:18 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 03:10 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 09:46 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 09:39 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingslacker2009/08/26 04:50 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 08:12 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 08:45 AM
                          Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingsomeone2009/08/26 10:29 AM
                            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingDavid Kanter2009/08/26 10:47 AM
          Not necessarilyDaniel Bizó2009/08/14 02:53 AM
        new POWER7 info ..Thu Nguyen2009/08/25 03:05 AM
          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 05:47 AM
            new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/25 06:50 AM
              new POWER7 info ..G Webb2009/08/25 11:49 PM
            new POWER7 info ..mpx2009/08/25 07:36 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 08:16 AM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/27 08:18 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..Linus Torvalds2009/08/27 10:53 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 12:00 PM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 03:21 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..David Kanter2009/08/27 08:32 PM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 07:45 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 04:00 AM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 05:51 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 06:44 AM
                          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 07:10 AM
                        Non Autopar submissions for NehalemIlleglWpns2009/08/28 09:41 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for NehalemDavid Kanter2009/08/28 10:07 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for Nehalemsomeone2009/08/28 11:00 AM
          new POWER7 info ..mas2009/08/25 11:25 PM
            An EV8 lite? (NT)anon2009/08/26 08:21 AM
              An EV8 lite? => Piranha?M.2009/08/30 03:54 AM
            new POWER7 info ..Mark Roulo2009/08/27 05:51 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 06:03 AM
                new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 08:55 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 10:58 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 03:11 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..Gabriele Svelto2009/08/27 11:17 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 04:27 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 08:07 AM
                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 10:15 AM
                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 10:39 AM
                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 12:55 PM
                              OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 02:16 PM
                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 02:44 PM
                                  Atom uarchDavid Kanter2009/08/28 07:19 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 07:07 PM
                              OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 03:18 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 12:55 AM
                                  OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 06:21 AM
                                    OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 08:14 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 08:56 AM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 09:08 AM
                                      OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:27 AM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 03:50 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 06:17 PM
                                          OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:07 PM
                                            OOOE for low powerJonathan Kang2009/09/01 04:44 AM
                                              OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/09/01 03:21 PM
                                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/01 04:53 PM
                                                  OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 01:27 AM
                                                    OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/02 07:46 AM
                                                      OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 03:52 PM
                                                    Define "emulate" (NT)Michael S2009/09/02 10:44 PM
                                                      Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/02 11:33 PM
                                                        Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 03:46 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Adrian2009/09/03 09:45 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/03 01:20 PM
                                                            Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 09:41 PM
                                                              Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/04 02:30 AM
                                                  low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 01:32 PM
                                                    low power ARM chipsGabriele Svelto2009/10/31 03:05 PM
                                                      low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 03:45 PM
                                                        low power ARM chipst2009/10/31 04:21 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 09:07 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 11:40 AM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 04:03 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 06:13 PM
                                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/30 06:35 AM
                                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 01:32 PM
                                            OOOE for low powerMatt Sayler2009/08/31 12:38 PM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 11:07 AM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:44 AM
                                  TTMMichael S2009/08/29 11:24 AM
                                    TTMFoo_2009/08/29 12:40 PM
                                      TTMMichael S2009/08/29 01:10 PM
                                        TTManon2009/08/29 06:33 PM
                                          TTMJukka Larja2009/08/29 08:49 PM
                                            TTManon2009/08/30 05:07 AM
                                              TTMJukka Larja2009/08/30 08:31 PM
                                                Area, power and AtomDavid Kanter2009/08/30 09:36 PM
                                                  Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/30 11:18 PM
                                                    Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 07:44 AM
                                                      Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/31 11:19 AM
                                                        Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 01:53 PM
                                                          Area, power and Atomanonymous2009/08/31 03:17 PM
                                                        Area, power and AtomGabriele Svelto2009/08/31 02:41 PM
                                                          64-bit disabled AtomsFoo_2009/09/02 03:38 AM
                                                            64-bit disabled AtomsRobert David Graham2009/09/02 11:56 AM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanon2009/09/02 01:14 PM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanonymous2009/09/02 03:30 PM
                                                TTMMichael S2009/08/30 10:49 PM
                                                  TTMJukka Larja2009/08/31 10:23 PM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 05:38 AM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 05:40 AM
                                        TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 08:50 AM
                                          TTMPaul2009/08/30 08:54 AM
                                            TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 09:16 AM
                                        TTMFoo_2009/09/02 03:31 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerRob Thorpe2009/08/30 08:19 AM
                                OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:16 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerJukka Larja2009/08/29 08:40 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:04 PM
                          OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/08/28 04:30 PM
                            OOOE and cache/mem sizesLinus Torvalds2009/08/31 09:53 PM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 03:15 AM
                                OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/01 07:35 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Jouni Osmala2009/09/01 07:57 AM
                                    OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/02 12:34 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/02 04:35 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/02 05:19 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 08:43 PM
                                        OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/03 01:52 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 06:34 AM
                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/04 01:04 AM
                                              OOOE impactsDavid Kanter2009/09/04 09:12 AM
                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/06 11:16 AM
                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/07 02:47 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/07 05:03 AM
                                                    Does IBM lie about PPC603 being OoO chip?AM2009/09/08 02:13 AM
                                                      No, but...Michael S2009/09/08 06:05 AM
                                                        No, but...hobold2009/09/09 04:09 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJS2009/09/07 05:34 AM
                                                    Are Sandpile and others wrong about 0.28 um?AM2009/09/08 02:12 AM
                                                    OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 05:43 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/07 06:48 AM
                                                    OOOE costsDavid Kanter2009/09/07 11:07 AM
                                                    OOOE impactsAM2009/09/08 02:11 AM
                                                      OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/10 12:53 AM
                                                        OOOE impactsAM2009/09/11 03:35 AM
                                                          OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/11 07:38 AM
                                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/12 04:06 AM
                                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/12 10:36 PM
                                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/14 03:39 AM
                                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/14 05:18 AM
                                                                    if-ex distanceAM2009/09/15 04:16 AM
                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/19 02:54 AM
                                                                      small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/19 08:51 PM
                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/20 05:54 AM
                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 12:16 PM
                                                                            small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/20 03:51 PM
                                                                              small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 08:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/21 05:59 AM
                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/21 02:14 AM
                                                                              small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/21 09:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumAM2009/09/22 02:01 AM
                                                                                  small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/22 10:31 PM
                                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/23 07:35 AM
                                                                                      small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/23 09:31 PM
                                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/23 11:13 PM
                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/24 08:39 PM
                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/25 04:18 AM
                                                                                              Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/25 06:14 AM
                                                                                                Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/25 10:24 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsWilco2009/09/25 02:18 PM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 08:12 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 07:54 AM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 08:05 AM
                                                                                                      Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:16 AM
                                                                                                Agree, with very minor change.Jouni Osmala2009/09/25 08:37 PM
                                                                                                Back to bitsAM2009/09/26 05:16 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:13 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionDavid Kanter2009/09/25 11:23 AM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 04:55 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/25 10:33 PM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 04:50 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 01:16 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 03:58 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 03:07 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 02:43 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/28 11:45 PM
                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/30 02:13 AM
                                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/01 12:34 AM
                                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/01 03:05 AM
                                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/01 11:38 PM
                                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/03 06:19 AM
                                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 02:38 AM
                                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/04 07:27 AM
                                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 10:48 PM
                                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/05 06:13 AM
                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/05 10:36 PM
                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/06 03:37 AM
                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/07 02:15 AM
                                                                                                                                About teachinganon2009/10/07 11:39 AM
                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/08 02:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 03:10 AM
                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/09 04:40 AM
                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 08:02 PM
                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/09 10:24 PM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/10 09:50 PM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/12 01:02 AM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/12 09:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/13 03:06 AM
                                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/13 10:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/14 02:36 AM
                                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/14 07:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/15 03:22 AM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/12 01:23 AM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingDean Kent2009/10/12 11:25 AM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/13 01:11 AM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionSeni2009/09/26 05:26 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionWilco2009/09/26 07:08 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 01:18 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 04:12 AM
                                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/24 09:04 PM
                                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/25 04:04 AM
                                                                                            extra stage in EV6AM2009/09/26 05:29 AM
                                                    PPC603 does OoOEhobold2009/09/08 04:40 AM
                                                  OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 04:39 AM
                                                    EV6AM2009/09/09 03:33 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateSeni2009/09/02 08:11 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateLinus Torvalds2009/09/02 05:48 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 10:55 PM
                                            OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/02 11:44 PM
                                              OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 12:02 AM
                                                OOOE and ItaniumAM2009/09/03 12:27 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/03 02:41 AM
                                              OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/03 12:12 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 01:10 AM
                                            POWER6 skewed pipelinePaul A. Clayton2009/09/03 10:22 AM
                                              POWER6 skewed pipelineAnon42009/09/03 06:00 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateMr. Camel2009/09/03 02:40 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateRichard Cownie2009/09/03 05:42 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/01 08:01 AM
                                    OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/02 12:32 AM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/02 06:49 AM
                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 12:40 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 12:45 AM
                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 02:18 AM
                                              LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 02:55 AM
                                                LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 03:28 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 04:29 AM
                                                    Amount of cache per core matters,and mem bandwith too (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/09/03 06:44 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54rwessel2009/09/03 01:31 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:24 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:40 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54a reader2009/09/03 08:20 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 04:57 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/03 01:30 PM
                                                      LRB choice of P54David Kanter2009/09/03 03:38 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 07:16 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:07 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:20 AM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 07:13 AM
                                                          LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/04 07:38 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/05 03:36 AM
                                                              LRB choice of P54Anon2009/09/05 01:44 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 11:12 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:18 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/04 07:18 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 10:53 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/05 03:06 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 08:14 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54 - Layout?Anonymous2009/09/03 01:40 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54 - Layout?anonymous2009/09/03 02:54 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Jukka Larja2009/09/03 08:58 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54mpx2009/09/04 03:07 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 01:02 AM
                                        OOOE and pipe length etc.Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 12:40 AM
                                      Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/03 03:26 PM
                                        Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/03 04:14 PM
                                          Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/04 09:05 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 09:59 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/05 08:58 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386James2009/09/07 02:15 AM
                                              Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/07 06:44 PM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Michael S2009/09/03 04:42 PM
                                        LRB coreAM2009/09/04 01:09 AM
                                          LRB coreMichael S2009/09/04 04:07 AM
                                            LRB coreanon2009/09/04 07:27 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 09:12 AM
                                                LRB coreanon2009/09/05 10:03 PM
                                                  reasons for split I/D L1 cachesMichael S2009/09/06 03:10 AM
                                                    reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/06 05:32 AM
                                                      reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/06 09:35 AM
                                                        reasons for split I/D L1 cachesmegol2009/09/06 02:39 PM
                                                          reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/07 03:20 AM
                                                            reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/07 05:25 AM
                                                              cache hinting?2009/09/07 06:10 AM
                                                                cache hintinganon2009/09/07 06:35 AM
                                                                  cache hinting?2009/09/07 08:10 AM
                                                                    cache hintinganon2009/09/07 08:49 AM
                                                                      cache hinting?2009/09/07 09:37 AM
                                              Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 12:38 PM
                                                Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/06 10:15 PM
                                                  Split and unified cachesMichael S2009/09/06 11:40 PM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 01:24 AM
                                                  Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 11:51 PM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 01:13 AM
                                            LRB coreAM2009/09/04 11:08 PM
                                            LRB coreLinus Torvalds2009/09/05 09:47 AM
                                          LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 12:23 PM
                                            LRB coreAnon2009/09/04 05:32 PM
                                              LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 09:15 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 09:21 AM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesa reader2009/09/01 08:19 AM
                                OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 08:43 AM
                      snapdraon?Michael S2009/08/28 05:10 AM
                        snapdraon?a reader2009/08/28 07:51 AM
                          Thanks (NT)Michael S2009/08/29 11:53 AM
                        snapdraon?Paul2009/08/28 12:12 PM
              new POWER7 info ..EduardoS2009/08/27 02:41 PM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/28 04:03 AM
                  Single threaded performanceDavid Kanter2009/08/28 09:52 AM
  Hot Chips XXI Preview onlinehobold2009/08/13 06:30 AM
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How do you spell avocado?