Windows vs Unix/Linux culture

Article: Hot Chips XXI Preview
By: JasonB (no.delete@this.spam.com), August 24, 2009 10:35 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Richard Cownie (tich@pobox.com) on 8/24/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>It isn't global variables in the language sense, so much
>as the fact that the data structures are highly
>interlinked, so if you pass a pointer into a thread
>then the thread might call routines that call other
>routines that follow pointers to other objects that
>point to other objects that point anywhere ...

Well, we generally don't write our code as unencapsulated as that. A few objects contain methods that return pointers, but when those object are const, the const versions of those methods are called, and they return const pointers.

And one of the cool things about threading is that it's cheap enough that you don't need to do it at such a high level that you're talking about calling routines that call other routines that follow pointers to other objects that point to other objects that point anywhere. All of our threaded routines have a very shallow view of the data, generally working directly with the container that contains the objects to be processed.

>>What I did say was that it would need to be about a thousand times faster
>>to compete with not having to copy it at all.
>
>The data has to get into/through the L1 cache of the
>core that runs the task, whether you program any explicit
>data copying or not. And the *implicit* data movement
>takes time - time that is hard to measure, but it
>isn't a free lunch.

As I've said before:

1. That cost will be present in the parallel processing case as well, and will typically be worse if distinct copies of the data are being used rather than shared memory because of the additional cache pressure. Therefore the cost of the up-front copy is in addition to the normal copying of data into caches. The only downside I can see is that when there is a lot of writing to shared data it can cause a lot of cache flushes that wouldn't otherwise have been required, but if you can partition the output well enough that separate processes can write to independent partitions then you can certainly do exactly the same thing with the multithreaded version, while still gaining on not copying the read-only portions. (We have several routines that partition the problem by the output generated, and then each thread fills in its portion of the output array, while all reading the shared input.)

2. It can be a free lunch if there is enough computation between accesses and the predictors work well enough that the latency is completely hidden.

>>That's also a huge burden. You've stated many times how much effort is required
>>to revisit the assumptions of a large codebase stretching back 15 years while at
>>the same time advocating a sweeping change like this.
>
>It's a problem that tools can help with, a lot: the
>serialize code can follow pointers, and it can tell
>you where it's going and how much stuff it's moving.
>And if you fail to copy some stuff you really needed
>(e.g. access through global/static variable), then
>the separate process will get junk and crash. Dealing
>with those issues seems more tractable than dealing
>with unrepeatable thread interactions. YMMV.

That seems like a lot of work compared to analysing a single routine that's a hotspot amenable to parallelisation. YMMV.

>>Using threading I can look at a tiny part of the code, analyse it, and thread it
>>safely with minimal changes. I can do this bit-by-bit over time, finding the next
>>best operation to parallelise and implementing it.
>
>That aspect is the same.

Maybe in your case.

>>To do it your way I would have to be in a position to predict all the ways I might
>>want to slice and dice the data in future if I want to avoid having to go through
>>the whole process every time I wanted to parallelise a certain operation, which
>>would be tricky since different operations really want to partition the data in different ways.
>
>Well, good algorithms need suitable data structures.
>If different algorithms want to traverse the data in
>different ways, that's a design issue which may need
>to be addressed for serial code just as much as for
>parallel code. If my approach forces its users to
>think hard about the data structure for each particular
>algorithm, that may have some benefits as well as costs.

There's no issue with the data structures in the serial case. It's when you come to thinking about how to parallelise the operation that different views into the data can be required to maximise performance.

>>Consider the case I mentioned: the processor is accessing shared data at a rate
>>of no more than a few hundred MB/sec, and each access is surrounded by quite a few
>
>Yeah, that's all fine: if you have a detailed understanding
>of all the data access patterns and algorithms, then
>you're golden. But that isn't the kind of culture I'm
>working in (and frankly, I think the vast majority of
>programmers these days don't have a clue: a lot of ours
>have no clue about relative bandwidth and latency of
>disk and DRAM; some don't seem to know what a cache is,
>or why it matters).

I would suggest that trying to do anything remotely complicated with programmers that don't have a clue is a bad idea.

>>BTW, I did forget one feature of C++ that does help with threading, and
>>that's const,
>
>I find it mostly useless myself: you pass in a pointer
>to a const object, then you read some other pointer
>inside the object and follow it to something else,
>and modifying that second (or N'th) object is just as
>harmful. I suppose you could try to write all your
>classes with deep const'ness, i.e. a const method treats
>all pointers to other objects as const, But that's
>hard to do and perhaps not always what you want "const"
>to mean.

If you declare that a method is const then it's up to you to make sure it means what you want it to mean. If you can't do that, don't declare it const.

As I mentioned above, the handful of const methods that we have that return pointers to things only return const pointers, thereby ensuring constness is transitive. The logic behind it is that if you're asking an object for a pointer to something, chances are the "something" should be thought of as part of the state of that object, and therefore if the object is const, the pointer should be as well.

I would consider a whole mess of classes returning pointers to all sorts of other classes to be a sign of poor encapsulation, however, and good encapsulation certainly helps when it comes to threading because it allows you to focus on a manageable portion of the code.
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TopicPosted ByDate
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                              How much IPCAnonymous2009/08/16 04:26 PM
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                                            Speculation and waste?2009/08/18 10:59 AM
                                              Speculation and wasteDavid Kanter2009/08/18 11:22 AM
                                              Speculation and wasteanon2009/08/19 01:52 AM
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                                          How much IPCanon2009/08/18 01:27 AM
                                How much IPCanon2009/08/16 09:05 PM
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                                      How much IPCDavid Kanter2009/08/17 02:38 PM
                                      How much IPCMichael S2009/08/17 02:39 PM
                                        How much IPCDavid Kanter2009/08/17 02:48 PM
                                          How much IPCMichael S2009/08/17 04:03 PM
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                                                      limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 04:26 AM
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                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 05:32 AM
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                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 07:22 AM
                                                                limits of sorting_Arthur2009/08/18 07:57 AM
                                                                  limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 08:30 AM
                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 08:45 AM
                                                                    limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 08:50 AM
                                                                      limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 09:09 AM
                                                                        limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 09:33 AM
                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 09:53 AM
                                                                            limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 10:28 AM
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                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/18 05:40 PM
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                                                                                        You work on EDA right Richard?David Kanter2009/08/19 07:26 AM
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                                                                                                  You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/19 10:45 PM
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                                                                                          You work on EDA right Richard?Aaron Spink2009/08/19 11:08 PM
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                                                                                              You work on EDA right Richard?Rob Thorpe2009/08/20 03:10 PM
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                                                                                    limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/18 10:11 PM
                                                                                      limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/18 10:25 PM
                                                                                      limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/19 05:32 AM
                                                                                        limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/19 06:12 AM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/19 06:46 AM
                                                                                        limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/19 07:43 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 06:47 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 07:20 PM
                                                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 10:12 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/21 01:08 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 04:15 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/22 05:24 PM
                                                                                                      limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/22 06:27 PM
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                                                                                                              useful link, thanksRichard Cownie2009/08/23 04:23 PM
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                                                                                                        limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/23 08:26 AM
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                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresa reader2009/08/25 06:04 AM
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                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresAndi Kleen2009/08/24 11:06 PM
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                                                                                                                      thanksAndi Kleen2009/08/25 10:28 AM
                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresanon2009/08/25 02:34 PM
                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresAndi Kleen2009/08/25 09:25 PM
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                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/25 01:32 AM
                                                                                                                exceptiona reader2009/08/25 06:32 AM
                                                                                                                  exceptionRichard Cownie2009/08/25 06:57 AM
                                                                                                                    exceptionPotatoswatter2009/08/25 07:30 AM
                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/25 07:56 PM
                                                                                                                  correctionJasonB2009/08/25 08:47 PM
                                                                                                                    correctionc++2009/08/26 08:53 AM
                                                                                                                      correctionJasonB2009/08/26 06:48 PM
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                                                                                                                      correctionPotatoswatter2009/08/27 06:52 AM
                                                                                                                        correctionc++2009/08/27 08:29 AM
                                                                                                                          comeau bugs and gcc featuresPotatoswatter2009/08/27 08:51 AM
                                                                                                                            comeau bugs and gcc featuresPotatoswatter2009/08/27 10:28 AM
                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/26 08:17 AM
                                                                                                                    wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/26 06:46 PM
                                                                                                                      wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/27 08:41 AM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 08:33 PM
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                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 12:27 AM
                                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresMichael S2009/08/28 05:05 AM
                                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/28 05:45 AM
                                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 06:50 AM
                                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 03:56 PM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 04:55 PM
                                                                                                                              wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 06:44 PM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresKonrad Schwarz2009/09/07 03:24 AM
                                                                                                                  wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/26 02:22 PM
                                                                                                                    wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/26 05:47 PM
                                                                                                                      wacky C++ featuresJukka Larja2009/08/26 11:03 PM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 12:17 AM
                                                                                                                      wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/27 02:26 PM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 05:31 PM
                                                                                                                          wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/28 02:25 PM
                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 05:20 PM
                                                                                                                        wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/27 08:56 PM
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                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureMichael S2009/08/21 07:07 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/21 07:33 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 03:12 AM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/21 10:18 PM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/21 10:45 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/21 11:48 PM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 03:25 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureGian-Carlo Pascutto2009/08/22 06:02 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux culturePaul2009/08/22 07:13 AM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux culturerwessel2009/08/24 02:09 PM
                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/22 04:28 PM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/22 05:22 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/22 05:52 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/22 06:47 PM
                                                                                                        EncapsulationKonrad Schwarz2009/09/03 03:49 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulationanon2009/09/03 09:05 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulation?2009/09/03 10:38 AM
                                                                                                          EncapsulationAndi Kleen2009/09/04 12:41 AM
                                                                                                            Encapsulationanon2009/09/04 06:24 AM
                                                                                                            EncapsulationRichard Cownie2009/09/04 06:34 AM
                                                                                                              EncapsulationKonrad Schwarz2009/09/07 02:28 AM
                                                                                                                EncapsulationRichard Cownie2009/09/07 03:04 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux culture?2009/09/03 10:51 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureno thanks2009/08/23 09:36 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/23 03:23 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 07:31 PM
                                                                                                            Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/23 11:10 PM
                                                                                                              Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJukka Larja2009/08/24 09:13 PM
                                                                                                              Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/24 10:35 PM
                                                                                                                Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/25 02:04 AM
                                                                                                                  Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/25 10:48 PM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 07:28 AM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/26 09:31 PM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 07:43 AM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/26 12:48 PM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 02:28 PM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/26 07:06 PM
                                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/27 02:44 AM
                                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRob Thorpe2009/08/27 04:51 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 08:07 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureno thanks2009/08/23 08:44 PM
                                                                                                            Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 11:34 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/23 08:46 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 06:59 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 08:27 AM
                                                                                              limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 07:55 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 10:22 PM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 11:15 PM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 03:47 AM
                                                                                              limits of sorting?2009/08/20 10:42 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 06:51 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/21 07:11 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 07:38 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingdmsc2009/08/20 06:56 PM
                                                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 07:20 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/20 07:09 AM
                                                                              limits of sortingAaron Spink2009/08/19 11:19 PM
                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 12:55 AM
                                                          limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 06:12 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/18 06:55 AM
                                                          limits of sortingrwessel2009/09/08 01:52 PM
                                                            maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyEmil2009/09/08 06:06 PM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyrwessel2009/09/08 09:04 PM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/09 03:56 AM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/09 08:10 AM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/10 04:39 AM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/10 07:05 AM
                                                                    maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyPotatoswatter2009/09/10 12:23 PM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencydmsc2009/09/13 07:04 AM
                                                      limits of sortingPotatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 05:07 PM
                                                        indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Potatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 05:12 PM
                                                          indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 12:01 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/22 06:25 AM
                                                          limits of sortingPotatoswatter2009/08/22 07:45 AM
                                                          limits of sortingDavid Kanter2009/08/22 09:16 AM
                                                            limits of sortingJouni Osmala2009/08/22 11:01 AM
                                                              Oops that was counting sort not bucket sort ;(Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 11:07 AM
                                                                close enough for my purposeshobold2009/08/22 01:15 PM
                                                            select vs. cmovehobold2009/08/22 01:25 PM
                                              How much IPCGian-Carlo Pascutto2009/08/18 02:25 AM
                                                How much IPCVincent Diepeveen2009/08/19 05:46 AM
                                                  How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/19 08:32 AM
                                              How much IPChobold2009/08/18 03:17 AM
                                                How much IPCMichael S2009/08/18 04:33 AM
                                                  How much IPChobold2009/08/18 06:35 AM
                                              How much IPC?2009/08/18 11:20 AM
                                                How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 11:33 AM
                                                  Nit pickingDavid Kanter2009/08/18 01:17 PM
                                                    Nit picking_Arthur2009/08/18 01:37 PM
                                                      Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 02:02 PM
                                                        Nit pickingS. Rao2009/08/18 04:02 PM
                                                          Nit pickinganon2009/08/19 02:03 AM
                                                    Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 01:53 PM
                                                      Nit pickingJasonB2009/08/18 06:16 PM
                                                  How much IPC?2009/08/18 01:37 PM
                                                    How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 03:23 PM
                                                      How much IPCMatt Sayler2009/08/18 05:09 PM
                                                      How much IPC?2009/08/18 10:59 PM
                                  nick's testcasea reader2009/08/17 04:47 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 09:00 AM
                                  Explicit dependency chainsDavid Kanter2009/09/30 06:56 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 09:00 AM
                              How much IPChobold2009/08/17 05:38 AM
                            How much IPCanon2009/08/16 08:59 PM
                            Speeing Up Single ThreadsTruePath2009/09/27 07:58 AM
                      How much IPCanon2009/08/15 07:01 PM
                        How much IPCEduardoS2009/08/16 06:06 AM
                        How much IPCsJ2009/08/16 08:48 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 02:26 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/14 03:04 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 02:43 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 03:08 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 03:33 PM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/22 07:57 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJukka Larja2009/08/22 10:04 PM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 11:33 AM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/21 11:51 PM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 09:56 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/22 10:38 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/23 03:05 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/23 03:28 AM
                          Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 05:48 AM
                            Programming LarrabeeEduardoS2009/08/23 06:41 AM
                              Programming Larrabeeanon2009/08/23 07:29 AM
                            Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 06:47 AM
                              Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/23 08:11 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 11:49 PM
                              Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 08:59 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 11:44 PM
                                Programming Larrabeehobold2009/08/24 05:41 AM
                                  Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/24 07:15 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/24 07:33 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeJukka Larja2009/08/24 09:30 PM
                                      Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/25 01:53 AM
                            Programming Larrabeempx2009/08/25 08:16 AM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJoe2009/08/24 08:38 AM
            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingGabriele Svelto2009/08/14 03:35 AM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 08:18 AM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/14 04:34 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 06:30 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 07:23 AM
                improving NetburstAM2009/08/15 01:36 AM
                  improving Netburstanon2009/08/15 07:10 AM
                    improving NetburstEuronymous2009/08/15 08:35 AM
                    improving NetburstMichael S2009/08/15 01:18 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 03:10 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 09:46 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 09:39 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingslacker2009/08/26 04:50 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 08:12 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 08:45 AM
                          Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingsomeone2009/08/26 10:29 AM
                            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingDavid Kanter2009/08/26 10:47 AM
          Not necessarilyDaniel Bizó2009/08/14 02:53 AM
        new POWER7 info ..Thu Nguyen2009/08/25 03:05 AM
          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 05:47 AM
            new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/25 06:50 AM
              new POWER7 info ..G Webb2009/08/25 11:49 PM
            new POWER7 info ..mpx2009/08/25 07:36 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 08:16 AM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/27 08:18 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..Linus Torvalds2009/08/27 10:53 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 12:00 PM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 03:21 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..David Kanter2009/08/27 08:32 PM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 07:45 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 04:00 AM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 05:51 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 06:44 AM
                          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 07:10 AM
                        Non Autopar submissions for NehalemIlleglWpns2009/08/28 09:41 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for NehalemDavid Kanter2009/08/28 10:07 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for Nehalemsomeone2009/08/28 11:00 AM
          new POWER7 info ..mas2009/08/25 11:25 PM
            An EV8 lite? (NT)anon2009/08/26 08:21 AM
              An EV8 lite? => Piranha?M.2009/08/30 03:54 AM
            new POWER7 info ..Mark Roulo2009/08/27 05:51 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 06:03 AM
                new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 08:55 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 10:58 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 03:11 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..Gabriele Svelto2009/08/27 11:17 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 04:27 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 08:07 AM
                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 10:15 AM
                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 10:39 AM
                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 12:55 PM
                              OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 02:16 PM
                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 02:44 PM
                                  Atom uarchDavid Kanter2009/08/28 07:19 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 07:07 PM
                              OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 03:18 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 12:55 AM
                                  OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 06:21 AM
                                    OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 08:14 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 08:56 AM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 09:08 AM
                                      OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:27 AM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 03:50 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 06:17 PM
                                          OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:07 PM
                                            OOOE for low powerJonathan Kang2009/09/01 04:44 AM
                                              OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/09/01 03:21 PM
                                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/01 04:53 PM
                                                  OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 01:27 AM
                                                    OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/02 07:46 AM
                                                      OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 03:52 PM
                                                    Define "emulate" (NT)Michael S2009/09/02 10:44 PM
                                                      Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/02 11:33 PM
                                                        Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 03:46 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Adrian2009/09/03 09:45 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/03 01:20 PM
                                                            Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 09:41 PM
                                                              Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/04 02:30 AM
                                                  low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 01:32 PM
                                                    low power ARM chipsGabriele Svelto2009/10/31 03:05 PM
                                                      low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 03:45 PM
                                                        low power ARM chipst2009/10/31 04:21 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 09:07 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 11:40 AM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 04:03 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 06:13 PM
                                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/30 06:35 AM
                                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 01:32 PM
                                            OOOE for low powerMatt Sayler2009/08/31 12:38 PM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 11:07 AM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:44 AM
                                  TTMMichael S2009/08/29 11:24 AM
                                    TTMFoo_2009/08/29 12:40 PM
                                      TTMMichael S2009/08/29 01:10 PM
                                        TTManon2009/08/29 06:33 PM
                                          TTMJukka Larja2009/08/29 08:49 PM
                                            TTManon2009/08/30 05:07 AM
                                              TTMJukka Larja2009/08/30 08:31 PM
                                                Area, power and AtomDavid Kanter2009/08/30 09:36 PM
                                                  Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/30 11:18 PM
                                                    Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 07:44 AM
                                                      Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/31 11:19 AM
                                                        Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 01:53 PM
                                                          Area, power and Atomanonymous2009/08/31 03:17 PM
                                                        Area, power and AtomGabriele Svelto2009/08/31 02:41 PM
                                                          64-bit disabled AtomsFoo_2009/09/02 03:38 AM
                                                            64-bit disabled AtomsRobert David Graham2009/09/02 11:56 AM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanon2009/09/02 01:14 PM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanonymous2009/09/02 03:30 PM
                                                TTMMichael S2009/08/30 10:49 PM
                                                  TTMJukka Larja2009/08/31 10:23 PM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 05:38 AM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 05:40 AM
                                        TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 08:50 AM
                                          TTMPaul2009/08/30 08:54 AM
                                            TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 09:16 AM
                                        TTMFoo_2009/09/02 03:31 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerRob Thorpe2009/08/30 08:19 AM
                                OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:16 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerJukka Larja2009/08/29 08:40 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:04 PM
                          OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/08/28 04:30 PM
                            OOOE and cache/mem sizesLinus Torvalds2009/08/31 09:53 PM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 03:15 AM
                                OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/01 07:35 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Jouni Osmala2009/09/01 07:57 AM
                                    OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/02 12:34 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/02 04:35 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/02 05:19 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 08:43 PM
                                        OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/03 01:52 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 06:34 AM
                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/04 01:04 AM
                                              OOOE impactsDavid Kanter2009/09/04 09:12 AM
                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/06 11:16 AM
                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/07 02:47 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/07 05:03 AM
                                                    Does IBM lie about PPC603 being OoO chip?AM2009/09/08 02:13 AM
                                                      No, but...Michael S2009/09/08 06:05 AM
                                                        No, but...hobold2009/09/09 04:09 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJS2009/09/07 05:34 AM
                                                    Are Sandpile and others wrong about 0.28 um?AM2009/09/08 02:12 AM
                                                    OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 05:43 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/07 06:48 AM
                                                    OOOE costsDavid Kanter2009/09/07 11:07 AM
                                                    OOOE impactsAM2009/09/08 02:11 AM
                                                      OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/10 12:53 AM
                                                        OOOE impactsAM2009/09/11 03:35 AM
                                                          OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/11 07:38 AM
                                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/12 04:06 AM
                                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/12 10:36 PM
                                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/14 03:39 AM
                                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/14 05:18 AM
                                                                    if-ex distanceAM2009/09/15 04:16 AM
                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/19 02:54 AM
                                                                      small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/19 08:51 PM
                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/20 05:54 AM
                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 12:16 PM
                                                                            small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/20 03:51 PM
                                                                              small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 08:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/21 05:59 AM
                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/21 02:14 AM
                                                                              small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/21 09:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumAM2009/09/22 02:01 AM
                                                                                  small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/22 10:31 PM
                                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/23 07:35 AM
                                                                                      small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/23 09:31 PM
                                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/23 11:13 PM
                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/24 08:39 PM
                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/25 04:18 AM
                                                                                              Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/25 06:14 AM
                                                                                                Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/25 10:24 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsWilco2009/09/25 02:18 PM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 08:12 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 07:54 AM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 08:05 AM
                                                                                                      Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:16 AM
                                                                                                Agree, with very minor change.Jouni Osmala2009/09/25 08:37 PM
                                                                                                Back to bitsAM2009/09/26 05:16 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:13 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionDavid Kanter2009/09/25 11:23 AM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 04:55 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/25 10:33 PM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 04:50 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 01:16 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 03:58 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 03:07 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 02:43 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/28 11:45 PM
                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/30 02:13 AM
                                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/01 12:34 AM
                                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/01 03:05 AM
                                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/01 11:38 PM
                                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/03 06:19 AM
                                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 02:38 AM
                                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/04 07:27 AM
                                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 10:48 PM
                                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/05 06:13 AM
                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/05 10:36 PM
                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/06 03:37 AM
                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/07 02:15 AM
                                                                                                                                About teachinganon2009/10/07 11:39 AM
                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/08 02:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 03:10 AM
                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/09 04:40 AM
                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 08:02 PM
                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/09 10:24 PM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/10 09:50 PM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/12 01:02 AM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/12 09:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/13 03:06 AM
                                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/13 10:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/14 02:36 AM
                                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/14 07:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/15 03:22 AM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/12 01:23 AM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingDean Kent2009/10/12 11:25 AM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/13 01:11 AM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionSeni2009/09/26 05:26 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionWilco2009/09/26 07:08 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 01:18 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 04:12 AM
                                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/24 09:04 PM
                                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/25 04:04 AM
                                                                                            extra stage in EV6AM2009/09/26 05:29 AM
                                                    PPC603 does OoOEhobold2009/09/08 04:40 AM
                                                  OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 04:39 AM
                                                    EV6AM2009/09/09 03:33 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateSeni2009/09/02 08:11 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateLinus Torvalds2009/09/02 05:48 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 10:55 PM
                                            OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/02 11:44 PM
                                              OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 12:02 AM
                                                OOOE and ItaniumAM2009/09/03 12:27 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/03 02:41 AM
                                              OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/03 12:12 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 01:10 AM
                                            POWER6 skewed pipelinePaul A. Clayton2009/09/03 10:22 AM
                                              POWER6 skewed pipelineAnon42009/09/03 06:00 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateMr. Camel2009/09/03 02:40 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateRichard Cownie2009/09/03 05:42 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/01 08:01 AM
                                    OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/02 12:32 AM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/02 06:49 AM
                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 12:40 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 12:45 AM
                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 02:18 AM
                                              LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 02:55 AM
                                                LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 03:28 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 04:29 AM
                                                    Amount of cache per core matters,and mem bandwith too (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/09/03 06:44 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54rwessel2009/09/03 01:31 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:24 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:40 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54a reader2009/09/03 08:20 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 04:57 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/03 01:30 PM
                                                      LRB choice of P54David Kanter2009/09/03 03:38 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 07:16 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:07 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:20 AM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 07:13 AM
                                                          LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/04 07:38 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/05 03:36 AM
                                                              LRB choice of P54Anon2009/09/05 01:44 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 11:12 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:18 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/04 07:18 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 10:53 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/05 03:06 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 08:14 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54 - Layout?Anonymous2009/09/03 01:40 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54 - Layout?anonymous2009/09/03 02:54 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Jukka Larja2009/09/03 08:58 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54mpx2009/09/04 03:07 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 01:02 AM
                                        OOOE and pipe length etc.Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 12:40 AM
                                      Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/03 03:26 PM
                                        Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/03 04:14 PM
                                          Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/04 09:05 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 09:59 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/05 08:58 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386James2009/09/07 02:15 AM
                                              Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/07 06:44 PM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Michael S2009/09/03 04:42 PM
                                        LRB coreAM2009/09/04 01:09 AM
                                          LRB coreMichael S2009/09/04 04:07 AM
                                            LRB coreanon2009/09/04 07:27 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 09:12 AM
                                                LRB coreanon2009/09/05 10:03 PM
                                                  reasons for split I/D L1 cachesMichael S2009/09/06 03:10 AM
                                                    reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/06 05:32 AM
                                                      reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/06 09:35 AM
                                                        reasons for split I/D L1 cachesmegol2009/09/06 02:39 PM
                                                          reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/07 03:20 AM
                                                            reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/07 05:25 AM
                                                              cache hinting?2009/09/07 06:10 AM
                                                                cache hintinganon2009/09/07 06:35 AM
                                                                  cache hinting?2009/09/07 08:10 AM
                                                                    cache hintinganon2009/09/07 08:49 AM
                                                                      cache hinting?2009/09/07 09:37 AM
                                              Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 12:38 PM
                                                Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/06 10:15 PM
                                                  Split and unified cachesMichael S2009/09/06 11:40 PM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 01:24 AM
                                                  Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 11:51 PM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 01:13 AM
                                            LRB coreAM2009/09/04 11:08 PM
                                            LRB coreLinus Torvalds2009/09/05 09:47 AM
                                          LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 12:23 PM
                                            LRB coreAnon2009/09/04 05:32 PM
                                              LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 09:15 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 09:21 AM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesa reader2009/09/01 08:19 AM
                                OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 08:43 AM
                      snapdraon?Michael S2009/08/28 05:10 AM
                        snapdraon?a reader2009/08/28 07:51 AM
                          Thanks (NT)Michael S2009/08/29 11:53 AM
                        snapdraon?Paul2009/08/28 12:12 PM
              new POWER7 info ..EduardoS2009/08/27 02:41 PM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/28 04:03 AM
                  Single threaded performanceDavid Kanter2009/08/28 09:52 AM
  Hot Chips XXI Preview onlinehobold2009/08/13 06:30 AM
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How do you spell purple?