# How much IPC

Article: Hot Chips XXI Preview
By: ? (0xe2.0x9a.0x9b.delete@this.gmail.com), August 18, 2009 2:37 pm
_Arthur (arthur_@sympatico.ca) on 8/18/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>? (0xe2.0x9a.0x9b@gmail.com) on 8/18/09 wrote:
>---------------------------
>>_Arthur (arthur_@sympatico.ca) on 8/17/09 wrote:
>>---------------------------
>>>Michael S (already5chosen@yahoo.com) on 8/17/09 wrote:
>>>
>>>That's irrelevant. If you have to sort an unordered vector or list of data, your
>>>key, innermost, comparison will fail 50% of the times, no matter the algorithm.
>>
>>Well, I did - and you are obviously in error here! I will use [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merge_sort]
>>as an example. Suppose you are sorting an almost-sorted list of values (in other
>>words, it is not a completely random sequence). A merge of two lists A and B could look like this:
>>
>>``` >>A=(10,20,30,40) >>B=(25,50,60) >>```
>>
>>Merging A and B performs the following comparisons:
>>``` >>1. (10<25) ? --> 10 T >>2. (20<25) ? --> 20 T >>3. (30<25) ? --> 25 F >>4. (30<50) ? --> 30 T >>5. (40<50) ? --> 40 T >>6. Append 50 and 60. >>```
>>
>>As you can see with your naked eye, there are 4 cases in which the comparison evaluated
>>to T, while there is only 1 case in which it evaluated to F. So, your assumption
>>that "comparison will fail 50% of the times, no matter the algorithm" is clearly completely wrong.
>
>
>I did specify "if you have to sort an unordered vector", didn't I ?

Note: I am used to understand that the word "unordered" means "incapable of being ordered". Like "unordered set" vs "ordered set", or "unordered collection" vs "ordered collection", "unordered map"... According to this meaning, "unordered vector" is either [a non-sense] or [a data structure which allows its elements to be sequentially enumerated but the elements cannot be sorted because we lack operator '<'].

Anyway, back to those 50%:

1. I provided a concrete example. Are you able to prove that such a sequence of numbers cannot be produced by a pseudo-random number generator?

2. How about you provide an example where you show your point? Or even better: write a small test program and post the results here.
TopicPosted ByDate
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limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 05:26 AM
limits of sorting_Arthur2009/08/18 06:03 AM
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limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 09:45 AM
limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 09:50 AM
limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 10:09 AM
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You work on EDA right Richard?Richard Cownie2009/08/19 05:56 AM
You work on EDA right Richard?David Kanter2009/08/19 08:26 AM
You work on EDA right Richard?Richard Cownie2009/08/19 08:47 AM
You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/19 09:52 AM
You work on EDA right Richard?Richard Cownie2009/08/19 10:10 AM
You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/19 11:36 PM
You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/19 11:45 PM
You work on EDA right Richard?Richard Cownie2009/08/20 05:28 AM
You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/20 06:32 AM
You work on EDA right Richard?Aaron Spink2009/08/20 12:08 AM
You work on EDA right Richard?Rob Thorpe2009/08/20 08:31 AM
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limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/19 06:32 AM
limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/19 07:12 AM
limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/19 07:46 AM
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limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/22 06:24 PM
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limits of sorting?2009/08/23 05:07 AM
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limits of sortinganonymous2009/08/23 11:42 AM
useful link, thanksRichard Cownie2009/08/23 05:23 PM
limits of sorting?2009/09/04 04:05 AM
limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/23 09:26 AM
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thanksRichard Cownie2009/08/25 08:07 AM
thanksAndi Kleen2009/08/25 11:28 AM
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exceptionRichard Cownie2009/08/25 07:57 AM
exceptionPotatoswatter2009/08/25 08:30 AM
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correctionJasonB2009/08/25 09:47 PM
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correctionPotatoswatter2009/08/27 07:52 AM
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comeau bugs and gcc featuresPotatoswatter2009/08/27 09:51 AM
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limits of sorting?2009/08/20 11:42 PM
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indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Potatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 06:12 PM
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limits of sortingJouni Osmala2009/08/22 12:01 PM
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An EV8 lite? => Piranha?M.2009/08/30 04:54 AM
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new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 04:11 PM
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new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 09:07 AM
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Area, power and AtomGabriele Svelto2009/08/31 03:41 PM
64-bit disabled AtomsFoo_2009/09/02 04:38 AM
64-bit disabled AtomsRobert David Graham2009/09/02 12:56 PM
64-bit disabled Atomsanon2009/09/02 02:14 PM
64-bit disabled Atomsanonymous2009/09/02 04:30 PM
TTMMichael S2009/08/30 11:49 PM
TTMJukka Larja2009/08/31 11:23 PM
TTMPaul2009/08/30 06:38 AM
TTMPaul2009/08/30 06:40 AM
TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 09:50 AM
TTMPaul2009/08/30 09:54 AM
TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 10:16 AM
TTMFoo_2009/09/02 04:31 AM
OOOE for low powerRob Thorpe2009/08/30 09:19 AM
OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:16 AM
OOOE for low powerJukka Larja2009/08/29 09:40 PM
OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/30 12:04 AM
OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/08/28 05:30 PM
OOOE and cache/mem sizesLinus Torvalds2009/08/31 10:53 PM
OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 04:15 AM
OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/01 08:35 AM
OOOE and pipe length etc.Jouni Osmala2009/09/01 08:57 AM
OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/02 01:34 AM
OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/02 05:35 AM
OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/02 06:19 AM
OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 09:43 PM
OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/03 02:52 AM
OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 07:34 AM
OOOE impactsAM2009/09/04 02:04 AM
OOOE impactsDavid Kanter2009/09/04 10:12 AM
OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/06 12:16 PM
OOOE impactsAM2009/09/07 03:47 AM
OOOE impactsMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/07 06:03 AM
Does IBM lie about PPC603 being OoO chip?AM2009/09/08 03:13 AM
No, but...Michael S2009/09/08 07:05 AM
No, but...hobold2009/09/09 05:09 AM
OOOE impactsJS2009/09/07 06:34 AM
Are Sandpile and others wrong about 0.28 um?AM2009/09/08 03:12 AM
OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 06:43 AM
OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/07 07:48 AM
OOOE costsDavid Kanter2009/09/07 12:07 PM
OOOE impactsAM2009/09/08 03:11 AM
OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/10 01:53 AM
OOOE impactsAM2009/09/11 04:35 AM
OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/11 08:38 AM
OOOE impactsAM2009/09/12 05:06 AM
OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/12 11:36 PM
OOOE impactsAM2009/09/14 04:39 AM
OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/14 06:18 AM
if-ex distanceAM2009/09/15 05:16 AM
Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/25 07:14 AM
Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/25 11:24 AM
Back to bitsWilco2009/09/25 03:18 PM
Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 09:12 AM
Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:54 AM
Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 09:05 AM
Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 09:16 AM
Agree, with very minor change.Jouni Osmala2009/09/25 09:37 PM
Back to bitsAM2009/09/26 06:16 AM
Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 09:13 AM
About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/12 02:23 AM
About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/13 02:11 AM
extra stage in EV6AM2009/09/26 06:29 AM
PPC603 does OoOEhobold2009/09/08 05:40 AM
OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 05:39 AM
EV6AM2009/09/09 04:33 AM
OOOE and clock rateSeni2009/09/02 09:11 AM
OOOE and clock rateLinus Torvalds2009/09/02 06:48 PM
OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 11:55 PM
OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 12:44 AM
OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 01:02 AM
OOOE and ItaniumAM2009/09/03 01:27 AM
OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/03 03:41 AM
OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/03 01:12 AM
OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 02:10 AM
POWER6 skewed pipelinePaul A. Clayton2009/09/03 11:22 AM
POWER6 skewed pipelineAnon42009/09/03 07:00 PM
OOOE and clock rateMr. Camel2009/09/03 03:40 AM
OOOE and clock rateRichard Cownie2009/09/03 06:42 AM
OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/01 09:01 AM
OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/02 01:32 AM
OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/02 07:49 AM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 01:40 AM
LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 01:45 AM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 03:18 AM
LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 03:55 AM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 04:28 AM
LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 05:29 AM
Amount of cache per core matters,and mem bandwith too (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/09/03 07:44 AM
LRB choice of P54rwessel2009/09/03 02:31 PM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:24 AM
LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 06:40 AM
LRB choice of P54a reader2009/09/03 09:20 AM
LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:57 PM
LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/03 02:30 PM
LRB choice of P54David Kanter2009/09/03 04:38 PM
LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 08:16 AM
LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 06:07 PM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:20 AM
LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 08:13 AM
LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/04 08:38 AM
LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/05 04:36 AM
LRB choice of P54Anon2009/09/05 02:44 PM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 12:12 AM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 02:18 AM
LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/04 08:18 PM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 11:53 PM
LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/05 04:06 AM
LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 09:14 AM
LRB choice of P54 - Layout?Anonymous2009/09/03 02:40 PM
LRB choice of P54 - Layout?anonymous2009/09/03 03:54 PM
LRB choice of P54Jukka Larja2009/09/03 09:58 PM
LRB choice of P54mpx2009/09/04 04:07 AM
LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 02:02 AM
OOOE and pipe length etc.Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 01:40 AM
Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/03 04:26 PM
Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/03 05:14 PM
Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/04 10:05 AM
Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 10:59 AM
Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/05 09:58 AM
Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386James2009/09/07 03:15 AM
Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/07 07:44 PM
OOOE and pipe length etc.Michael S2009/09/03 05:42 PM
LRB coreAM2009/09/04 02:09 AM
LRB coreMichael S2009/09/04 05:07 AM
LRB coreanon2009/09/04 08:27 PM
LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 10:12 AM
LRB coreanon2009/09/05 11:03 PM
reasons for split I/D L1 cachesMichael S2009/09/06 04:10 AM
reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/06 06:32 AM
reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/06 10:35 AM
reasons for split I/D L1 cachesmegol2009/09/06 03:39 PM
reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/07 04:20 AM
reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/07 06:25 AM
cache hinting?2009/09/07 07:10 AM
cache hintinganon2009/09/07 07:35 AM
cache hinting?2009/09/07 09:10 AM
cache hintinganon2009/09/07 09:49 AM
cache hinting?2009/09/07 10:37 AM
Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 01:38 PM
Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/06 11:15 PM
Split and unified cachesMichael S2009/09/07 12:40 AM
Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 02:24 AM
Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/07 12:51 AM
Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 02:13 AM
LRB coreAM2009/09/05 12:08 AM
LRB coreLinus Torvalds2009/09/05 10:47 AM
LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 01:23 PM
LRB coreAnon2009/09/04 06:32 PM
LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 10:15 PM
LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 10:21 AM
OOOE and cache/mem sizesa reader2009/09/01 09:19 AM
OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 09:43 AM
snapdraon?Michael S2009/08/28 06:10 AM