About teaching

Article: Hot Chips XXI Preview
By: Jukka Larja (roskakori2006.delete@this.gmail.com), October 13, 2009 10:33 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
AM (myname4rwt@jee.male) on 10/13/09 wrote:
---------------------------

> Even if _he_ thinks it's obvious,
> it doesn't make it a fact or
> obvious to others. The same
> applies to you.

And even if you think it isn't obvious, it doesn't mean you can act like the other guy is a liar or an idiot.

>>> Don't you find it's actually much easier
>>> to grasp things at your own pace rather
>>> than one set by the lecturer?
>>
>> Sure, but the problem is that the
>> text-book is going to collect dust on my
>> table for most of the semester, until
>> just before the exam I'm frantically
>> trying to learn some useless bits of
>> information to pass.
>>
>> Lectures are a bit like watching a
>> documentary on TV. I could very well
>> attent just for fun. If lectures don't
>> suit you, then don't attent, but don't
>> presume that your way of studying suits
>> everyone.
>
> It's actually you who bases the argument
> on assumptions rather than
> clarifications (recalling how you
> entered this discussion), so don't try
> to assign your own imperfections to
> others.

I have already stated that if someone feels lectures are a waste of time, then he can simply not attent. I have no problem with that. That's how 99 % of lectures in my university work. But if that someone then says that there should be no lectures, there I disagree.

> Besides, I simply fail to see what fun
> can a classical lecture can provide
> (and don't know anyone who really
> enjoyed them).

Well, that's your problem. Many people fail to see what fun documentaries can provide yet still there are documentaries on TV every day. And its not like lectures have to be great fun or anything like that. More fun than reading a book alone is a good start.

If you allow a little sidetrack, I have something you might want to think about. In Finland, university education is practically free (about 100 euros a year) and government even gives you some money for living (though not quite as much as being unemployed would net you). You can't get kicked out of university because of bad grades or slow advancement of studies, in practise not even if you don't advance at all.

In that kind of environment, it takes a lot of discipline to study by yourself for an exam that's weeks or months away. It doesn't matter if you don't pass, just try again next year (or as in my university, at least four times a year). So what if you graduate a year or two later. If you don't care, no one else will.

So I don't know whether this is relevant or not. I do think that an average Finnish student would be quite different, if he had to pay for studying or was in danger of being kicked out because of bad grades.

>> I do believe more in exercises, but
>> lectures are cheaper. The common
>> theme here is activating the
>> students, which is pretty hard if
>> you only give them a book and tell
>> them to take the exam three months
>> later.
>
> Lectures and activation of students
> are orthogonal things. I can easily
> imagine lectures less activating
> than a competition (even if it's
> not very well thought out) or
> game-based approach, but the
> reverse is really hard to imagine.

So, tell me how to setup competition or game-based approach for large number of students (something like 100-300) with about the same cost as lectures. I agree that there are better ways than lectures, but the cost is also going to be higher (more on this below).

> Well, since you mentioned costs,
> why a good lecturer would be
> cheaper than good sources? Esp. if
> lectures are not meant to replace
> the sourcese, but to supplement
> them. Apparent lack of logic there.

I have stated before that "just sources + exam" is the cheapest approach, but very bad one. So bad that even accountants understand that it isn't good.

But even if we forget the accountants for a while, the lectures have the benefit of costing about the same whether there are ten students or three hundred students. So once you got someone who knows his stuff picking the sources and making and grading the exam, having him give the lectures is relatively cheap on a large course.[1]

And since many students are actually very bad at independently studying a text-book, the cost/benefit ratio should be high.

[1] On a neighbouring university, not restricted to engineering, it is common to have courses with just few students. Many of those courses don't have lectures. They are often about some basic stuff that doesn't really change every year, if even every decade. They are, as I see it, perfect fit for "just sources + exam" approach. Professor only needs to come up with one or two new questions for an exam and update source material every five years or so. Besides, if a student has trouble passing the course, he probably don't need to anyway. If it was compulsory, there would be more participants.

> I don't think it's just misunderstandings,
> as I mentioned before. Yes, some people
> prefer a lecturer, others would rather
> read a book, but don't forget that a
> lecture can be at best as good as a good
> source -- this is indeed a basic truth
> which you have to deal with.

I think you need to deal with the basic truth that many students aren't going to open that book in time. And it is university's job to get them to learn somehow. Not bitch about them being idiots who don't know what would be the best way to study.

Besides, your ignoring people like Dean who actually learn better hearing than seeing. It isn't a basic truth that a good written source is always at least as good as a lecture.

> The clarification is in the parenthesis.
> Much of university research simply
> doesn't have scientific significance,
> which is more or less a fact.

I agree with this, but if that's true, I think there's hardly any such research going on outside universities in Finland.

> You're stating an obvious thing now,
> and the argument was *never* about
> whether OoOE is free or not.

It was at the time I introduced the three statements. That's why I introduced them. You can blame me for reading you wrong all you want, or changing context or being stupid or whatever, but that was the reason.

> So let me suggest that you should
> stop whining how difficult it's
> for you to express yourself in a
> foreign language, but instead
> concentrate on the subject if you
> really have something to dispute
> my points with -- in theory or in
> practice. Otherwise, what's the
> point?

And what point pray tell are we talking about here? I think your point is that you are always right, and if there's misunderstanding, it's other party's fault.

> Besides, you deleted several important
> questions or points which I'd like to
> see answered or addressed so we make
> some progress:

I deleted them because I'm 99 % sure that there isn't going to be progress, and that 1 % just isn't enough to motivate me to spend time on this.

I have tried my best to be clear. You don't understand me, so what's the point of going on?

Anyway, I'm feeling lucky, so here goes:

>> You quoted me out of context. You
>> took part of my text talking about
>> the example I had set up and
>> presented it as something I
>> generally think is true. I was all
>> surprised because I cannot fathom
>> how you still at that point
>> managed to miss the context of the
>> example.
>
> No need to misrepresent. I quoted
> the context to avoid any
> additional discussion, but it
> appears you'd go a long way just
> for the sake of arguing rather
> than doing actual clarification.

You quoted some text around bolded parts, not the context. Obviously, I hadn't been able to communicate that context to you (although I thought I had), but that doesn't change it. It's my context to define. It just shows that even something I considered simple and already solved issue wasn't one. After all those posts. So why go on?

> Then why not try a different
> approach? Point out what you think
> I'm missing from Jouni's or your
> own posts, and be clear about it.

I have tried different approaches on different issues here. Haven't worked, and I don't have much faith that n+1th approach is going to work. And what does "being clear about it" means? Do you think I'm being unclear on purpose? Then why go on?

> Of course there's no free lunch.
> How does it contradict something
> of what I said to Jouni or to
> you? Remember, the discussion
> concerned quite specific aspects:

At that point, it wasn't about that discussion anymore. It had slided to a point where I was asking about free lunch since to me it seemed like you denied it.

We have gone over this at least once already.

>> By the way. I think you got that fanboy
>> of theory thing I said wrong. It seems
>> that most of the time you use the title
>> I don't quite understand what you want.
>
> To undersand what are you grounds to
> state that someone "didn't get any of
> the discussion".

I don't understand what this has to do with "fanboy of theory" thing. I think we have discussed about "didn't get any of the discussion" part in at least two posts already.

> OK. Then doesn't it apply to anyone
> else, including you?

Yes, as I have said many times. Have you forgotten?

> Funny question, but if you agree it
> does, why bring it up?

Why bring what up? The fact that you seem to think it doesn't apply to you or the fact that I think you misunderstood Jouni's point?

-JLarja
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                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 08:45 AM
                                                                    limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 08:50 AM
                                                                      limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/18 09:09 AM
                                                                        limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 09:33 AM
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                                                                                            You work on EDA right Richard?slacker2009/08/19 08:52 AM
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                                                                                              You work on EDA right Richard?Rob Thorpe2009/08/20 03:10 PM
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                                                                                        limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/19 06:12 AM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/19 06:46 AM
                                                                                        limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/19 07:43 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 06:47 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 07:20 PM
                                                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 10:12 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/21 01:08 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 04:15 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/22 05:24 PM
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                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 12:27 AM
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                                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresEduardoS2009/08/28 05:45 AM
                                                                                                                                wacky C++ featuresRichard Cownie2009/08/28 06:50 AM
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                                                                                                                            wacky C++ featuresJasonB2009/08/28 04:55 PM
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                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/21 10:18 PM
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                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/22 04:28 PM
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                                                                                                        EncapsulationKonrad Schwarz2009/09/03 03:49 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulationanon2009/09/03 09:05 AM
                                                                                                          Encapsulation?2009/09/03 10:38 AM
                                                                                                          EncapsulationAndi Kleen2009/09/04 12:41 AM
                                                                                                            Encapsulationanon2009/09/04 06:24 AM
                                                                                                            EncapsulationRichard Cownie2009/09/04 06:34 AM
                                                                                                              EncapsulationKonrad Schwarz2009/09/07 02:28 AM
                                                                                                                EncapsulationRichard Cownie2009/09/07 03:04 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux culture?2009/09/03 10:51 AM
                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureno thanks2009/08/23 09:36 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/23 03:23 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 07:31 PM
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                                                                                                              Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/24 10:35 PM
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                                                                                                                  Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/25 10:48 PM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 07:28 AM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/26 09:31 PM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 07:43 AM
                                                                                                                    Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/26 12:48 PM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/26 02:28 PM
                                                                                                                      Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/26 07:06 PM
                                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRichard Cownie2009/08/27 02:44 AM
                                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureRob Thorpe2009/08/27 04:51 AM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 08:07 PM
                                                                                                          Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureno thanks2009/08/23 08:44 PM
                                                                                                            Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureJasonB2009/08/23 11:34 PM
                                                                                                        Windows vs Unix/Linux cultureanon2009/08/23 08:46 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 06:59 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 08:27 AM
                                                                                              limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 07:55 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 10:22 PM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 11:15 PM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 03:47 AM
                                                                                              limits of sorting?2009/08/20 10:42 PM
                                                                                                limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 06:51 AM
                                                                                                  limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/21 07:11 AM
                                                                                                    limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/21 07:38 AM
                                                                                            limits of sortingdmsc2009/08/20 06:56 PM
                                                                                              limits of sortingRichard Cownie2009/08/20 07:20 PM
                                                                                          limits of sortingRob Thorpe2009/08/20 07:09 AM
                                                                              limits of sortingAaron Spink2009/08/19 11:19 PM
                                                                                limits of sortingJasonB2009/08/20 12:55 AM
                                                          limits of sortingMichael S2009/08/18 06:12 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/18 06:55 AM
                                                          limits of sortingrwessel2009/09/08 01:52 PM
                                                            maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyEmil2009/09/08 06:06 PM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyrwessel2009/09/08 09:04 PM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/09 03:56 AM
                                                              maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/09 08:10 AM
                                                                maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyhobold2009/09/10 04:39 AM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyRichard Cownie2009/09/10 07:05 AM
                                                                    maximal theoretical sorting efficiencyPotatoswatter2009/09/10 12:23 PM
                                                                  maximal theoretical sorting efficiencydmsc2009/09/13 07:04 AM
                                                      limits of sortingPotatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 05:07 PM
                                                        indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Potatoswatter is back!2009/08/21 05:12 PM
                                                          indeed it doesn't succeed in partitioning at all, but you get the idea ;) (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 12:01 AM
                                                        limits of sortinghobold2009/08/22 06:25 AM
                                                          limits of sortingPotatoswatter2009/08/22 07:45 AM
                                                          limits of sortingDavid Kanter2009/08/22 09:16 AM
                                                            limits of sortingJouni Osmala2009/08/22 11:01 AM
                                                              Oops that was counting sort not bucket sort ;(Jouni Osmala2009/08/22 11:07 AM
                                                                close enough for my purposeshobold2009/08/22 01:15 PM
                                                            select vs. cmovehobold2009/08/22 01:25 PM
                                              How much IPCGian-Carlo Pascutto2009/08/18 02:25 AM
                                                How much IPCVincent Diepeveen2009/08/19 05:46 AM
                                                  How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/19 08:32 AM
                                              How much IPChobold2009/08/18 03:17 AM
                                                How much IPCMichael S2009/08/18 04:33 AM
                                                  How much IPChobold2009/08/18 06:35 AM
                                              How much IPC?2009/08/18 11:20 AM
                                                How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 11:33 AM
                                                  Nit pickingDavid Kanter2009/08/18 01:17 PM
                                                    Nit picking_Arthur2009/08/18 01:37 PM
                                                      Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 02:02 PM
                                                        Nit pickingS. Rao2009/08/18 04:02 PM
                                                          Nit pickinganon2009/08/19 02:03 AM
                                                    Nit pickingMichael S2009/08/18 01:53 PM
                                                      Nit pickingJasonB2009/08/18 06:16 PM
                                                  How much IPC?2009/08/18 01:37 PM
                                                    How much IPC_Arthur2009/08/18 03:23 PM
                                                      How much IPCMatt Sayler2009/08/18 05:09 PM
                                                      How much IPC?2009/08/18 10:59 PM
                                  nick's testcasea reader2009/08/17 04:47 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 09:00 AM
                                  Explicit dependency chainsDavid Kanter2009/09/30 06:56 PM
                                How much IPCTruePath2009/09/27 09:00 AM
                              How much IPChobold2009/08/17 05:38 AM
                            How much IPCanon2009/08/16 08:59 PM
                            Speeing Up Single ThreadsTruePath2009/09/27 07:58 AM
                      How much IPCanon2009/08/15 07:01 PM
                        How much IPCEduardoS2009/08/16 06:06 AM
                        How much IPCsJ2009/08/16 08:48 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 02:26 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/14 03:04 PM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 02:43 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 03:08 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/21 03:33 PM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/22 07:57 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJukka Larja2009/08/22 10:04 PM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 11:33 AM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/21 11:51 PM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 09:56 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingLinus Torvalds2009/08/22 10:38 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensing?2009/08/23 03:05 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/23 03:28 AM
                          Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 05:48 AM
                            Programming LarrabeeEduardoS2009/08/23 06:41 AM
                              Programming Larrabeeanon2009/08/23 07:29 AM
                            Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 06:47 AM
                              Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/23 08:11 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 11:49 PM
                              Programming Larrabee?2009/08/23 08:59 AM
                                Programming LarrabeePotatoswatter2009/08/23 11:44 PM
                                Programming Larrabeehobold2009/08/24 05:41 AM
                                  Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/24 07:15 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeRichard Cownie2009/08/24 07:33 AM
                                    Programming LarrabeeJukka Larja2009/08/24 09:30 PM
                                      Programming Larrabeenone2009/08/25 01:53 AM
                            Programming Larrabeempx2009/08/25 08:16 AM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJoe2009/08/24 08:38 AM
            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingGabriele Svelto2009/08/14 03:35 AM
              Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/14 08:18 AM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingEduardoS2009/08/14 04:34 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 06:30 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/15 07:23 AM
                improving NetburstAM2009/08/15 01:36 AM
                  improving Netburstanon2009/08/15 07:10 AM
                    improving NetburstEuronymous2009/08/15 08:35 AM
                    improving NetburstMichael S2009/08/15 01:18 PM
                Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/21 03:10 PM
                  Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensinganon2009/08/22 09:46 AM
                    Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/25 09:39 AM
                      Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingslacker2009/08/26 04:50 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 08:12 AM
                        Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingJonathan Kang2009/08/26 08:45 AM
                          Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingsomeone2009/08/26 10:29 AM
                            Power7 vs. single threaded performance and licensingDavid Kanter2009/08/26 10:47 AM
          Not necessarilyDaniel Bizó2009/08/14 02:53 AM
        new POWER7 info ..Thu Nguyen2009/08/25 03:05 AM
          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 05:47 AM
            new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/25 06:50 AM
              new POWER7 info ..G Webb2009/08/25 11:49 PM
            new POWER7 info ..mpx2009/08/25 07:36 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/25 08:16 AM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/27 08:18 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..Linus Torvalds2009/08/27 10:53 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 12:00 PM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 03:21 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..David Kanter2009/08/27 08:32 PM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 07:45 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 04:00 AM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 05:51 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..hobold2009/08/28 06:44 AM
                          new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 07:10 AM
                        Non Autopar submissions for NehalemIlleglWpns2009/08/28 09:41 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for NehalemDavid Kanter2009/08/28 10:07 AM
                          Non Autopar submissions for Nehalemsomeone2009/08/28 11:00 AM
          new POWER7 info ..mas2009/08/25 11:25 PM
            An EV8 lite? (NT)anon2009/08/26 08:21 AM
              An EV8 lite? => Piranha?M.2009/08/30 03:54 AM
            new POWER7 info ..Mark Roulo2009/08/27 05:51 AM
              new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 06:03 AM
                new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 08:55 AM
                  new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/27 10:58 AM
                    new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/27 03:11 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..Gabriele Svelto2009/08/27 11:17 PM
                      new POWER7 info ..someone2009/08/28 04:27 AM
                        new POWER7 info ..a reader2009/08/28 08:07 AM
                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 10:15 AM
                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 10:39 AM
                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 12:55 PM
                              OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 02:16 PM
                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/08/28 02:44 PM
                                  Atom uarchDavid Kanter2009/08/28 07:19 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/28 07:07 PM
                              OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/28 03:18 PM
                                OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 12:55 AM
                                  OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 06:21 AM
                                    OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 08:14 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 08:56 AM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 09:08 AM
                                      OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:27 AM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 03:50 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 06:17 PM
                                          OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:07 PM
                                            OOOE for low powerJonathan Kang2009/09/01 04:44 AM
                                              OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/09/01 03:21 PM
                                                OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/01 04:53 PM
                                                  OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 01:27 AM
                                                    OOOE for low powerMark Roulo2009/09/02 07:46 AM
                                                      OOOE for low powerWilco2009/09/02 03:52 PM
                                                    Define "emulate" (NT)Michael S2009/09/02 10:44 PM
                                                      Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/02 11:33 PM
                                                        Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 03:46 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Adrian2009/09/03 09:45 AM
                                                          Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/03 01:20 PM
                                                            Define "emulate"none2009/09/03 09:41 PM
                                                              Define "emulate"Wilco2009/09/04 02:30 AM
                                                  low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 01:32 PM
                                                    low power ARM chipsGabriele Svelto2009/10/31 03:05 PM
                                                      low power ARM chipsMichael S2009/10/31 03:45 PM
                                                        low power ARM chipst2009/10/31 04:21 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/29 09:07 AM
                                      OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/29 11:40 AM
                                        OOOE for low powera reader2009/08/29 04:03 PM
                                        OOOE for low poweranonymous2009/08/29 06:13 PM
                                          OOOE for low powersomeone2009/08/30 06:35 AM
                                            OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 01:32 PM
                                            OOOE for low powerMatt Sayler2009/08/31 12:38 PM
                                        OOOE for low powerDavid Kanter2009/08/30 11:07 AM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:44 AM
                                  TTMMichael S2009/08/29 11:24 AM
                                    TTMFoo_2009/08/29 12:40 PM
                                      TTMMichael S2009/08/29 01:10 PM
                                        TTManon2009/08/29 06:33 PM
                                          TTMJukka Larja2009/08/29 08:49 PM
                                            TTManon2009/08/30 05:07 AM
                                              TTMJukka Larja2009/08/30 08:31 PM
                                                Area, power and AtomDavid Kanter2009/08/30 09:36 PM
                                                  Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/30 11:18 PM
                                                    Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 07:44 AM
                                                      Area, power and AtomMichael S2009/08/31 11:19 AM
                                                        Area, power and Atoma reader2009/08/31 01:53 PM
                                                          Area, power and Atomanonymous2009/08/31 03:17 PM
                                                        Area, power and AtomGabriele Svelto2009/08/31 02:41 PM
                                                          64-bit disabled AtomsFoo_2009/09/02 03:38 AM
                                                            64-bit disabled AtomsRobert David Graham2009/09/02 11:56 AM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanon2009/09/02 01:14 PM
                                                              64-bit disabled Atomsanonymous2009/09/02 03:30 PM
                                                TTMMichael S2009/08/30 10:49 PM
                                                  TTMJukka Larja2009/08/31 10:23 PM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 05:38 AM
                                            TTMPaul2009/08/30 05:40 AM
                                        TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 08:50 AM
                                          TTMPaul2009/08/30 08:54 AM
                                            TTMMark Roulo2009/08/30 09:16 AM
                                        TTMFoo_2009/09/02 03:31 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerRob Thorpe2009/08/30 08:19 AM
                                OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 10:16 AM
                                  OOOE for low powerJukka Larja2009/08/29 08:40 PM
                                    OOOE for low powerMichael S2009/08/29 11:04 PM
                          OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/08/28 04:30 PM
                            OOOE and cache/mem sizesLinus Torvalds2009/08/31 09:53 PM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 03:15 AM
                                OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/01 07:35 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Jouni Osmala2009/09/01 07:57 AM
                                    OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/02 12:34 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/02 04:35 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/02 05:19 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 08:43 PM
                                        OOOE and clock rateAM2009/09/03 01:52 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 06:34 AM
                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/04 01:04 AM
                                              OOOE impactsDavid Kanter2009/09/04 09:12 AM
                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/06 11:16 AM
                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/07 02:47 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/07 05:03 AM
                                                    Does IBM lie about PPC603 being OoO chip?AM2009/09/08 02:13 AM
                                                      No, but...Michael S2009/09/08 06:05 AM
                                                        No, but...hobold2009/09/09 04:09 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJS2009/09/07 05:34 AM
                                                    Are Sandpile and others wrong about 0.28 um?AM2009/09/08 02:12 AM
                                                    OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 05:43 AM
                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/07 06:48 AM
                                                    OOOE costsDavid Kanter2009/09/07 11:07 AM
                                                    OOOE impactsAM2009/09/08 02:11 AM
                                                      OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/10 12:53 AM
                                                        OOOE impactsAM2009/09/11 03:35 AM
                                                          OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/11 07:38 AM
                                                            OOOE impactsAM2009/09/12 04:06 AM
                                                              OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/12 10:36 PM
                                                                OOOE impactsAM2009/09/14 03:39 AM
                                                                  OOOE impactsJouni Osmala2009/09/14 05:18 AM
                                                                    if-ex distanceAM2009/09/15 04:16 AM
                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/19 02:54 AM
                                                                      small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/19 08:51 PM
                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/20 05:54 AM
                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 12:16 PM
                                                                            small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/20 03:51 PM
                                                                              small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/20 08:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumThiago Kurovski2009/09/21 05:59 AM
                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/21 02:14 AM
                                                                              small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/21 09:21 PM
                                                                                small addendumAM2009/09/22 02:01 AM
                                                                                  small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/22 10:31 PM
                                                                                    small addendumAM2009/09/23 07:35 AM
                                                                                      small addendumJukka Larja2009/09/23 09:31 PM
                                                                                        small addendumAM2009/09/23 11:13 PM
                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/24 08:39 PM
                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/25 04:18 AM
                                                                                              Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/25 06:14 AM
                                                                                                Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/25 10:24 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsWilco2009/09/25 02:18 PM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 08:12 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 07:54 AM
                                                                                                    Back to bitsThiago Kurovski2009/09/26 08:05 AM
                                                                                                      Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:16 AM
                                                                                                Agree, with very minor change.Jouni Osmala2009/09/25 08:37 PM
                                                                                                Back to bitsAM2009/09/26 05:16 AM
                                                                                                  Back to bitsMichael S2009/09/26 08:13 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionDavid Kanter2009/09/25 11:23 AM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 04:55 AM
                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/25 10:33 PM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/26 04:50 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 01:16 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 03:58 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 03:07 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/28 02:43 AM
                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/28 11:45 PM
                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/09/30 02:13 AM
                                                                                                          OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/01 12:34 AM
                                                                                                            OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/01 03:05 AM
                                                                                                              OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/01 11:38 PM
                                                                                                                OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/03 06:19 AM
                                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 02:38 AM
                                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/04 07:27 AM
                                                                                                                      OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/10/04 10:48 PM
                                                                                                                        OT metadiscussionAM2009/10/05 06:13 AM
                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/05 10:36 PM
                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/06 03:37 AM
                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/07 02:15 AM
                                                                                                                                About teachinganon2009/10/07 11:39 AM
                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/08 02:11 AM
                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 03:10 AM
                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/09 04:40 AM
                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/09 08:02 PM
                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/09 10:24 PM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/10 09:50 PM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingAM2009/10/12 01:02 AM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/12 09:51 PM
                                                                                                                                                About teachingAM2009/10/13 03:06 AM
                                                                                                                                                  About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/13 10:33 PM
                                                                                                                                                    About teachingAM2009/10/14 02:36 AM
                                                                                                                                                      About teachingJukka Larja2009/10/14 07:19 PM
                                                                                                                                                        About teachingAM2009/10/15 03:22 AM
                                                                                                                                          About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/12 01:23 AM
                                                                                                                                            About teachingDean Kent2009/10/12 11:25 AM
                                                                                                                                              About teachingSalvatore De Dominicis2009/10/13 01:11 AM
                                                                                                OT metadiscussionSeni2009/09/26 05:26 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionWilco2009/09/26 07:08 AM
                                                                                                  OT metadiscussionJukka Larja2009/09/27 01:18 AM
                                                                                                    OT metadiscussionMichael S2009/09/27 04:12 AM
                                                                                          small addendumJouni Osmala2009/09/24 09:04 PM
                                                                                            small addendumAM2009/09/25 04:04 AM
                                                                                            extra stage in EV6AM2009/09/26 05:29 AM
                                                    PPC603 does OoOEhobold2009/09/08 04:40 AM
                                                  OOOE impactssomeone2009/09/08 04:39 AM
                                                    EV6AM2009/09/09 03:33 AM
                                      OOOE and clock rateSeni2009/09/02 08:11 AM
                                        OOOE and clock rateLinus Torvalds2009/09/02 05:48 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/02 10:55 PM
                                            OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/02 11:44 PM
                                              OOOE and clock rateJouni Osmala2009/09/03 12:02 AM
                                                OOOE and ItaniumAM2009/09/03 12:27 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateMartin Høyer Kristiansen2009/09/03 02:41 AM
                                              OOOE and clock rateanon2009/09/03 12:12 AM
                                                OOOE and clock rateWilco2009/09/03 01:10 AM
                                            POWER6 skewed pipelinePaul A. Clayton2009/09/03 10:22 AM
                                              POWER6 skewed pipelineAnon42009/09/03 06:00 PM
                                          OOOE and clock rateMr. Camel2009/09/03 02:40 AM
                                          OOOE and clock rateRichard Cownie2009/09/03 05:42 AM
                                  OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/01 08:01 AM
                                    OOOE and pipe length etc.AM2009/09/02 12:32 AM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Richard Cownie2009/09/02 06:49 AM
                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 12:40 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 12:45 AM
                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 02:18 AM
                                              LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 02:55 AM
                                                LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/03 03:28 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 04:29 AM
                                                    Amount of cache per core matters,and mem bandwith too (NT)Jouni Osmala2009/09/03 06:44 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54rwessel2009/09/03 01:31 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:24 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:40 AM
                                                    LRB choice of P54a reader2009/09/03 08:20 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 04:57 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/03 01:30 PM
                                                      LRB choice of P54David Kanter2009/09/03 03:38 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 07:16 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 05:07 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:20 AM
                                                        LRB choice of P54Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 07:13 AM
                                                          LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/04 07:38 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54Dan Downs2009/09/05 03:36 AM
                                                              LRB choice of P54Anon2009/09/05 01:44 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 11:12 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 01:18 AM
                                                      LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/04 07:18 PM
                                                        LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/04 10:53 PM
                                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/05 03:06 AM
                                                            LRB choice of P54AM2009/09/05 08:14 AM
                                                  LRB choice of P54 - Layout?Anonymous2009/09/03 01:40 PM
                                                    LRB choice of P54 - Layout?anonymous2009/09/03 02:54 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54Jukka Larja2009/09/03 08:58 PM
                                                  LRB choice of P54mpx2009/09/04 03:07 AM
                                          LRB choice of P54anon2009/09/03 01:02 AM
                                        OOOE and pipe length etc.Gian-Carlo Pascutto2009/09/03 12:40 AM
                                      Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/03 03:26 PM
                                        Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/03 04:14 PM
                                          Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/04 09:05 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Jonathan Kang2009/09/04 09:59 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Michael S2009/09/05 08:58 AM
                                            Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386James2009/09/07 02:15 AM
                                              Larrabee: Pentium vs 486 vs 386Mark Roulo2009/09/07 06:44 PM
                                      OOOE and pipe length etc.Michael S2009/09/03 04:42 PM
                                        LRB coreAM2009/09/04 01:09 AM
                                          LRB coreMichael S2009/09/04 04:07 AM
                                            LRB coreanon2009/09/04 07:27 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 09:12 AM
                                                LRB coreanon2009/09/05 10:03 PM
                                                  reasons for split I/D L1 cachesMichael S2009/09/06 03:10 AM
                                                    reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/06 05:32 AM
                                                      reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/06 09:35 AM
                                                        reasons for split I/D L1 cachesmegol2009/09/06 02:39 PM
                                                          reasons for split I/D L1 caches?2009/09/07 03:20 AM
                                                            reasons for split I/D L1 cachesanon2009/09/07 05:25 AM
                                                              cache hinting?2009/09/07 06:10 AM
                                                                cache hintinganon2009/09/07 06:35 AM
                                                                  cache hinting?2009/09/07 08:10 AM
                                                                    cache hintinganon2009/09/07 08:49 AM
                                                                      cache hinting?2009/09/07 09:37 AM
                                              Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 12:38 PM
                                                Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/06 10:15 PM
                                                  Split and unified cachesMichael S2009/09/06 11:40 PM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 01:24 AM
                                                  Split and unified cachesDavid Kanter2009/09/06 11:51 PM
                                                    Split and unified cachesanon2009/09/07 01:13 AM
                                            LRB coreAM2009/09/04 11:08 PM
                                            LRB coreLinus Torvalds2009/09/05 09:47 AM
                                          LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 12:23 PM
                                            LRB coreAnon2009/09/04 05:32 PM
                                              LRB coreDavid Kanter2009/09/04 09:15 PM
                                              LRB coreMichael S2009/09/05 09:21 AM
                              OOOE and cache/mem sizesa reader2009/09/01 08:19 AM
                                OOOE and cache/mem sizesRichard Cownie2009/09/01 08:43 AM
                      snapdraon?Michael S2009/08/28 05:10 AM
                        snapdraon?a reader2009/08/28 07:51 AM
                          Thanks (NT)Michael S2009/08/29 11:53 AM
                        snapdraon?Paul2009/08/28 12:12 PM
              new POWER7 info ..EduardoS2009/08/27 02:41 PM
                new POWER7 info ..Jesper Frimann2009/08/28 04:03 AM
                  Single threaded performanceDavid Kanter2009/08/28 09:52 AM
  Hot Chips XXI Preview onlinehobold2009/08/13 06:30 AM
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