By: hobold (hobold.delete@this.vectorizer.org), September 29, 2009 5:01 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
someone (someone@somewhere.com) on 9/28/09 wrote:
---------------------------
[...]
>Point out anywhere I used unqualified present tense to
>describe the competitive attributes of an Itanium device
>that hadn't reached silicon.
[...]
I don't need to, because "that particular line of reasoning" I wrote above refers to the general idea of comparing actual present and potential future. I know what those words refer to, because I wrote them myself.
Narrowing it down to your liking might save you from the letter of the law but not from the spirit of the law. But that's no surprise when we allow you to decide the exact letters of the law, is it?
Let me take the opportunity to explain to the general audience why I single out "someone" the way I do. It will eventually boil down to the fact that "someone" and "hobold" are extreme antagonist personas in the virtual world that is this forum. The ideas presented here are revolving around an old study of player motivations in text based multi user dungeons (you may google for "Players who suit MUDs" by Richard A. Bartle).
It has been noticed (but not in a source suitable to qualified citation, sorry), that the same categorization of motivations is more widely applicable beyond just the context of MUDs. The realization is actually quite simple: if you take away all the material necessities of life (safety, food, reproduction, etc.) but retain people's identities and their ability to communicate with each other, and place them in a shared context (a world), then - even though all their basic needs are covered - they don't lean back and doze off, but still remain active. They have inherent motivations even when there is no environmental pressure whatsoever.
A forum with persistent user "identities" and focused topics matches this most abstract concept of a virtual world.
Okay, so what are these intrinsic motivations? The categorization briefly mentioned above is very coarse, very abstract, and very general. It partitions participants of a virtual world along three orthogonal axes into eight octants. Any one participant can be described by a three dimensional position within a cube as follows:
Axis number one is labelled Players vs. World. This coordinate displays if the participant is mostly interested in other participants, or in the world (in case of this forum, that would be the topics discussed). This axis represents a balance more than a dichotomy.
Axis number two is labelled Acting vs. Interacting. Actors would want to control their subject of interest, while Interactors would want to react and adapt to it.
The third and final axis is labelled Explicit vs. Implicit. Explicit participants go out and do what they want to do. Implicit participants organize other participants to do it.
The resulting eight coarse categories have been given catchy names: Friend, Griefer, Hacker, Networker, Opportunist, Planner, Politician, Scientist, but I won't use these names here, because they are overloaded with emotional subtext.
Instead I will just tell you in which octant I see "hobold" and "someone". When I am posting here, I am interested almost exclusively in the topic. I could praise good ideas even if they are from a nobody. I could attack a bad idea in less than respectful ways even if it was uttered by a highly revered participant. I can, and sometimes do, make ad hominem attacks, but I reserve them for rare and special occasions. I see "someone" in the other half space with respect to axis one.
I see myself more interested in learning than in teaching. When I am posting here, good questions excite me more than good answers. It can happen that I feel compelled to try and answer such a good question, even if I don't really have an answer. I don't usually shy away from asking a dumb question, and even if I were to be the victim of a bit of ridicule, that would not discourage me too quickly. I see "someone" in the other half space of axis two; motivated more by "being right" than by finding "truth".
Finally, I put myself on the Explicit side of axis three. I am actually a lazy guy, but I don't expect others to do the arguing for me. I do not ask followers to come over to my "side", nor will I be easily recruited for fighting somebody else's war. I see "someone" in the opposite half space.
Okay, so why do I bore you all with this lengthy wall of text? There is one important aspect that I completely left out: the influence that these motivations have on the community of participants. I do hope that (some of) you find this theory interesting. Maybe you can learn something about your own role here, and the roles of others.
Then again, maybe all you learn is how warped my image is of myself and of "someone". :-)
---------------------------
[...]
>Point out anywhere I used unqualified present tense to
>describe the competitive attributes of an Itanium device
>that hadn't reached silicon.
[...]
I don't need to, because "that particular line of reasoning" I wrote above refers to the general idea of comparing actual present and potential future. I know what those words refer to, because I wrote them myself.
Narrowing it down to your liking might save you from the letter of the law but not from the spirit of the law. But that's no surprise when we allow you to decide the exact letters of the law, is it?
Let me take the opportunity to explain to the general audience why I single out "someone" the way I do. It will eventually boil down to the fact that "someone" and "hobold" are extreme antagonist personas in the virtual world that is this forum. The ideas presented here are revolving around an old study of player motivations in text based multi user dungeons (you may google for "Players who suit MUDs" by Richard A. Bartle).
It has been noticed (but not in a source suitable to qualified citation, sorry), that the same categorization of motivations is more widely applicable beyond just the context of MUDs. The realization is actually quite simple: if you take away all the material necessities of life (safety, food, reproduction, etc.) but retain people's identities and their ability to communicate with each other, and place them in a shared context (a world), then - even though all their basic needs are covered - they don't lean back and doze off, but still remain active. They have inherent motivations even when there is no environmental pressure whatsoever.
A forum with persistent user "identities" and focused topics matches this most abstract concept of a virtual world.
Okay, so what are these intrinsic motivations? The categorization briefly mentioned above is very coarse, very abstract, and very general. It partitions participants of a virtual world along three orthogonal axes into eight octants. Any one participant can be described by a three dimensional position within a cube as follows:
Axis number one is labelled Players vs. World. This coordinate displays if the participant is mostly interested in other participants, or in the world (in case of this forum, that would be the topics discussed). This axis represents a balance more than a dichotomy.
Axis number two is labelled Acting vs. Interacting. Actors would want to control their subject of interest, while Interactors would want to react and adapt to it.
The third and final axis is labelled Explicit vs. Implicit. Explicit participants go out and do what they want to do. Implicit participants organize other participants to do it.
The resulting eight coarse categories have been given catchy names: Friend, Griefer, Hacker, Networker, Opportunist, Planner, Politician, Scientist, but I won't use these names here, because they are overloaded with emotional subtext.
Instead I will just tell you in which octant I see "hobold" and "someone". When I am posting here, I am interested almost exclusively in the topic. I could praise good ideas even if they are from a nobody. I could attack a bad idea in less than respectful ways even if it was uttered by a highly revered participant. I can, and sometimes do, make ad hominem attacks, but I reserve them for rare and special occasions. I see "someone" in the other half space with respect to axis one.
I see myself more interested in learning than in teaching. When I am posting here, good questions excite me more than good answers. It can happen that I feel compelled to try and answer such a good question, even if I don't really have an answer. I don't usually shy away from asking a dumb question, and even if I were to be the victim of a bit of ridicule, that would not discourage me too quickly. I see "someone" in the other half space of axis two; motivated more by "being right" than by finding "truth".
Finally, I put myself on the Explicit side of axis three. I am actually a lazy guy, but I don't expect others to do the arguing for me. I do not ask followers to come over to my "side", nor will I be easily recruited for fighting somebody else's war. I see "someone" in the opposite half space.
Okay, so why do I bore you all with this lengthy wall of text? There is one important aspect that I completely left out: the influence that these motivations have on the community of participants. I do hope that (some of) you find this theory interesting. Maybe you can learn something about your own role here, and the roles of others.
Then again, maybe all you learn is how warped my image is of myself and of "someone". :-)
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Gabriele Svelto | 2009/09/26 01:46 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | none | 2009/09/26 02:27 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | jeff | 2009/09/27 04:06 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Michael S | 2009/09/27 04:29 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | none | 2009/09/27 05:01 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Howard Chu | 2009/09/27 09:39 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Wilco | 2009/09/27 06:03 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | jeff | 2009/09/27 07:00 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | a reader | 2009/09/27 07:17 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | David Kanter | 2009/09/27 07:37 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | a reader | 2009/09/27 07:46 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Mat | 2009/10/01 12:04 PM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Wilco | 2009/10/01 05:09 PM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | anon | 2009/10/01 07:19 PM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | RagingDragon | 2009/09/28 04:11 PM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Linus Torvalds | 2009/09/27 08:05 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | no thanks | 2009/09/27 03:47 PM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Linus Torvalds | 2009/09/28 05:22 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | ? | 2009/09/28 10:37 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | RagingDragon | 2009/09/28 04:22 PM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Megol | 2009/09/29 03:35 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Anders Jensen | 2009/09/28 10:50 PM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Linus Torvalds | 2009/09/29 06:44 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Mark Roulo | 2009/09/29 08:58 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Linus Torvalds | 2009/09/29 09:30 AM |
3- and 4-issue in-order CPUs | Mark Roulo | 2009/09/29 10:06 AM |
3- and 4-issue in-order CPUs | Linus Torvalds | 2009/09/29 10:29 AM |
3- and 4-issue in-order CPUs | Gian-Carlo Pascutto | 2009/09/29 11:35 PM |
3- and 4-issue in-order CPUs | Michael S | 2009/09/30 01:01 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | mpx | 2009/09/30 03:14 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Pun Zu | 2009/10/02 01:44 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | none | 2009/10/02 04:22 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Linus Torvalds | 2009/10/02 06:11 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | a reader | 2009/10/02 08:30 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Linus Torvalds | 2009/10/02 08:59 AM |
Moorestown | David Kanter | 2009/10/02 09:59 AM |
What's the difference between Moorestown and Pine Trail cores? | anon | 2009/10/03 07:37 PM |
Moorestown | none | 2009/11/03 03:34 PM |
Moorestown | Anon | 2009/11/04 02:17 PM |
Moorestown | none | 2009/11/05 12:38 AM |
Moorestown | David Kanter | 2009/11/05 03:45 PM |
Moorestown | IntelUser2000 | 2009/11/06 03:17 AM |
Moorestown | Anon | 2009/11/06 12:51 PM |
Moorestown | none | 2009/11/07 06:07 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Anon | 2009/10/02 06:55 PM |
Cluebat for graphics | David Kanter | 2009/10/02 08:19 PM |
Cluebat for graphics | Anon | 2009/10/03 04:45 PM |
Cluebat for graphics | David Kanter | 2009/10/04 12:57 AM |
Cluebat for graphics | Anon | 2009/10/04 07:15 PM |
Cluebat for graphics | David Kanter | 2009/10/05 02:09 AM |
Cluebat for graphics | Anon | 2009/10/05 02:36 PM |
Cluebat for graphics | David Kanter | 2009/10/05 08:54 PM |
Cluebat for graphics | Anon | 2009/10/06 04:58 PM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | Linus Torvalds | 2009/10/03 05:58 AM |
OOO hw vs SW&in-order hw | slacker | 2009/10/02 08:11 PM |
Linux graphics drivers | RagingDragon | 2009/10/03 07:27 PM |
Linux graphics drivers | anon | 2009/10/04 06:15 AM |
Linux graphics drivers | none | 2009/10/04 09:12 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | jeff | 2009/09/27 05:31 PM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | someone | 2009/09/27 08:30 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | none | 2009/09/27 09:09 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Wilco | 2009/09/27 10:35 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | someone | 2009/09/27 10:55 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Wilco | 2009/09/28 01:08 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | someone | 2009/09/28 04:58 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | none | 2009/09/28 05:18 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | someone | 2009/09/28 06:35 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Wilco | 2009/09/28 07:25 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Michael S | 2009/09/28 10:02 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Wilco | 2009/09/29 12:35 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Chuck | 2009/09/28 06:15 PM |
samples | AM | 2009/09/27 10:20 PM |
samples | Wilco | 2009/09/28 12:51 AM |
samples | AM | 2009/09/28 03:16 AM |
Shrinks and process tech | David Kanter | 2009/09/29 12:22 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | someone | 2009/09/27 10:42 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | none | 2009/09/27 11:52 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/09/27 10:09 PM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | Ungo | 2009/09/28 04:34 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | a reader | 2009/09/28 09:15 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | anon | 2009/09/28 06:25 PM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/09/30 02:32 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | baxeel | 2009/09/30 07:25 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/09/30 10:12 PM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | Ungo | 2009/10/01 02:00 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/10/01 04:08 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | anonymous | 2009/10/01 04:33 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/10/03 06:24 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | Pun Zu | 2009/10/02 12:30 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | Ungo | 2009/10/02 12:11 PM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/10/03 06:22 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | Ungo | 2009/10/03 01:53 PM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/10/04 07:44 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | David Kanter | 2009/10/04 10:02 PM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/10/05 06:18 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | David Kanter | 2009/10/05 10:12 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | AM | 2009/10/06 03:51 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | anonymous | 2009/10/06 06:58 AM |
Do you have any proof? | David Kanter | 2009/10/06 08:58 AM |
Do you? | AM | 2009/10/06 10:30 PM |
Of course I do! | anonymous | 2009/10/07 04:58 AM |
Thanks :-) | AM | 2009/10/08 02:17 AM |
Thanks :-) | anonymous | 2009/10/08 04:52 AM |
Thanks :-) | AM | 2009/10/09 02:13 AM |
Thanks :-) | anonymous | 2009/10/09 05:03 AM |
Thanks :-) | Foo_ | 2009/10/09 05:47 AM |
Thanks :-) | AM | 2009/10/10 12:15 AM |
That's what I thought... | David Kanter | 2009/10/07 08:00 AM |
That's what I thought... | AM | 2009/10/08 02:26 AM |
That's what I thought... | anonymous | 2009/10/08 05:02 AM |
let's see... | AM | 2009/10/09 02:09 AM |
let's see... | anonymous | 2009/10/09 04:43 AM |
let's see... | AM | 2009/10/09 04:52 AM |
let's see... | anonymous | 2009/10/09 05:15 AM |
let's see... | AM | 2009/10/10 12:18 AM |
Atom to stay in-oder or go OoO? | someone | 2009/09/28 05:09 AM |
I call Troll | hobold | 2009/09/28 03:51 AM |
I call Troll | someone | 2009/09/28 05:15 AM |
OT: categories of motivation in a forum | hobold | 2009/09/29 05:01 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Michael S | 2009/09/28 09:43 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | a reader | 2009/09/28 03:12 PM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | someone else | 2009/09/28 11:25 PM |
Why Cortex A9? | hobold | 2009/09/29 06:20 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | someone else | 2009/09/29 09:57 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | Richard Cownie | 2009/09/29 05:09 PM |
Why Cortex A9? | hobold | 2009/09/29 11:38 PM |
Why Cortex A9? | Richard Cownie | 2009/09/30 05:49 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | hobold | 2009/09/30 06:46 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | none | 2009/09/30 06:56 AM |
Marvell Sheeva and plug computing | Richard Cownie | 2009/09/30 08:03 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | Michael S | 2009/09/30 09:07 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | none | 2009/09/30 09:40 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | Gabriele Svelto | 2009/09/30 11:43 AM |
ARM architectural license | David Kanter | 2009/09/30 04:57 PM |
ARM architectural license | a reader | 2009/10/01 06:25 AM |
ARM architectural license | Richard Cownie | 2009/10/01 07:21 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | slacker | 2009/09/30 06:12 PM |
ARM architectural license | David Kanter | 2009/09/30 06:16 PM |
Why Cortex A9? | Michael S | 2009/10/01 06:45 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | slacker | 2009/10/02 01:41 AM |
Why Cortex A9? | Richard Cownie | 2009/10/02 09:28 AM |
Questions... | David Kanter | 2009/10/02 09:56 AM |
Questions... | Richard Cownie | 2009/10/02 10:29 AM |
Questions... | Wilco | 2009/10/02 12:05 PM |
Questions... | slacker | 2009/10/02 07:51 PM |
Why Cortex A9? | slacker | 2009/10/02 07:44 PM |
Why Cortex A9? | David W. Hess | 2009/09/30 07:42 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Gabriele Svelto | 2009/09/28 12:28 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Wilco | 2009/09/26 06:38 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Gabriele Svelto | 2009/09/28 12:38 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Costanza | 2009/10/01 02:45 PM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | sylt | 2009/09/28 04:54 AM |
Thoughts and questions on the Cortex A9 | Wilco | 2009/09/29 12:15 AM |