Intel Is going both ways.

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org),
Room: Moderated Discussions
Jouni Osmala (josmala@cc.hut.fi) on 5/23/09 wrote:
---------------------------
>You asked lower power more integration, relatively fast
>less cores. Thats intel low/mid-range offerings in the
>near future.
>Dual core nehalem with integrated graphics.

Oh, absolutely. I know. I might even have something like
that under my desk that I can't talk about.

So what was my point about the rants?

I'm ranting against the idiots who continue to talk
about how software must be more highly threaded, and how
multi-core is the inevitable future.

Those people are morons. It's not the inevitable future
at all. Software programmers should not think that
they have to write multi-threaded programs. It's too hard,
and the payoff is too little. And it absolutely isn't
where the industry is even going.

So I jumped in when I saw yet another hardware person
complaining about software not being threaded enough. I
am trying to explain why threading doesn't work, and why
the future is going to still be largely single-
threaded (or rather more likely - threaded, but only to
a fairly low degree).

The 2x cores vs 1.2x frequency is simply a false dichotomy.
That's neither the question nor likely the answer. The
real question is "where is technology going", and the
answer is that mass market still drives all high
tech, and that multi-core likely isn't going to push there.

Mass market is pretty clearly pushing in a totally different
direction, in my opinion.

Linus
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Thread (321 posts)
TopicPosted ByPosted
AMD Completes Shanghai RolloutDavid Kanter
  Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really????
    Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Daniel Bizó
      Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Groo
        Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?savantu
          Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Groo
            Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?redpriest
              Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?anon
                Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?redpriest
                  Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?anon
                    Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?redpriest
                      AMD vs. Intel validationDavid Kanter
          Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really????
        Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?someone
          brand new vs incremental improvements Michael S
            brand new vs incremental improvements someone
              brand new vs incremental improvements slacker
                brand new vs incremental improvements someone
                  brand new vs incremental improvements EduardoS
                    brand new vs incremental improvements Groo
                  brand new vs incremental improvements anon
              brand new vs incremental improvements RagingDragon
                brand new vs incremental improvements David Kanter
                  brand new vs incremental improvements RagingDragon
                Features that are not really features Vincent Diepeveen
                brand new vs incremental improvements someone
                  brand new vs incremental improvements Michael S
            brand new vs incremental improvements Groo
            brand new vs incremental improvements Vincent Diepeveen
          Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Mike C
            Very good status summary !Adrian
        Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Emil Briggs
          Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Emil Briggs
            Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Groo
              Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?EduardoS
                Wow, that's almost 80 % boost at the same clockrateDaniel Bizó
                  50%Michael S
                    50%Daniel Bizó
                      50%Daniel Bizó
                        50%EduardoS
                Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Michael S
                  Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?EduardoS
            Snoop filter and jbbHenrik S
          Meyer said, "Istanbul in June." Really?Groo
  Small correctionDaniel Bizó
    Opteron with 4 HT?Joe Chang
      Opteron with 4 HT?forestlaughing
      Opteron with 4 HT?Daniel Bizó
      Opteron with 4 HT?Groo
        Opteron with 4 HT?a reader
        Opteron with 4 HT?EduardoS
        Opteron with 4 HT?pgerassi
          Opteron with 4 HT?RagingDragon
            Opteron with 4 HT?Vincent Diepeveen
              Opteron with 4 HT?RagingDragon
                Opteron with 4 HT?Michael S
      Opteron with 4 HT?Bruce
  Magny-Cours?amd user
    Magny-Cours?David Kanter
      Magny-Cours?amd user
        Magny-Cours?MS
          Magny-Cours?amd user
            Magny-Cours?Groo
              Magny-Cours?amd user
        Too many coresEmil
          Too many coresEduardoS
            Too many coresMS
              Too many coresGroo
          Too many coresanon
            Too many coresDavid Kanter
              Too many coresanon
                Too many coresJasonB
                Too many coresRagingDragon
                  Too many coresVincent Diepeveen
              Too many coresanon
                Too many coresMichael S
                  Too many coresanon
            Too many coresEduardoS
            Too many coresLinus Torvalds
              Too many coresblaine
                Too many coresanon
                  Too many coresblaine
                    Too many coresanon
                      Too many coresRagingDragon
                        Too many coresAnonymous
                          Too many coresRagingDragon
                        Too many coresanon
              Too many coresanon
                Too many coresLinus Torvalds
                  An Example...Anonymous
                    An Example...anon2
                      An Example...Anonymous
                    An Example...anon
                    An Example...Doug Siebert
                      An Example...Salvatore De Dominicis
                      An Example...Linus Torvalds
                        An Example...Linus Torvalds
                          bigger chips, different companiesRichard Cownie
                          An Example...Emil Briggs
                        data compressionhobold
                          data compressionAndrew Shewmaker
                        An Example...Mark Christiansen
                          An Example...a reader
                            An Example...Mark Christiansen
                        An Example...Jouni Osmala
                        An Example...Doug Siebert
                          An Example...anon
                        An Example...anon
                        An Example...Anonymous
                          An Example...Linus Torvalds
                            An Example...anon
                              An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                An Example...Mark Christiansen
                                  An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                    An Example...Mark Christiansen
                                An Example...anon
                                  An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                    An Example...anon
                                    An Example...Anon
                                      An Example...michael
                                        An Example...Salvatore De Dominicis
                                          An Example...michael
                                          An Example...RagingDragon
                                            An Example...anon
                                              An Example...RagingDragon
                                                An Example...Jukka Larja
                                                  An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                An Example...anon
                                                  An Example...anon
                                                    An Example...RagingDragon
                                                  An Example...RagingDragon
                                                    An Example: Video decompressioniz
                                                      An Example: Video decompressionRagingDragon
                                                    An Example...anon
                                                      An Example...RagingDragon
                                                        An Example...anon
                                                          An Example...gallier2
                                                            An Example...iz
                                                              An Example...anon
                                                                An Example...iz
                                                                  An Example...anon
                                                                    An Example...iz
                                                                      An Example...anon
                                                                        An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                          An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                            An Example...Jouni Osmala
                                                                              An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                                An Example...Jukka Larja
                                                                                  An Example...RagingDragon
                                                                                    An Example...Jukka Larja
                                                                                  An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                                    So how about both?Doug Siebert
                                                                                      So how about both?slacker
                                                                                      So how about both?Linus Torvalds
                                                                                        So how about both?slacker
                                                                                          So how about both?Michael S
                                                                                            So how about both?slacker
                                                                                        So how about both?Doug Siebert
                                                                                          So how about both?Linus Torvalds
                                                                                            So how about both?a reader
                                                                                              So how about both?Linus Torvalds
                                                                                                So how about both?Euronymous
                                                                                              So how about both?Doug Siebert
                                                                                      Evolution of CPU and PC pricesMax
                                                                                        Evolution of CPU and PC pricesDoug Siebert
                                                                                          Evolution of CPU and PC pricesnothing to see
                                                                                    An Example...Jukka Larja
                                                                                      An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                                        Intel Is going both ways.Jouni Osmala
                                                                                          Intel Is going both ways.Linus Torvalds
                                                                                            Intel Is going both ways.Anon
                                                                                              Intel Is going both ways.RagingDragon
                                                                                            Intel Is going both ways.Jouni Osmala
                                                                                        An Example...slacker
                                                                                        An Example...Jukka Larja
                                                                                          An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                                            nehalemanon
                                                                                              nehalemLinus Torvalds
                                                                                                nehalemJukka Larja
                                                                                                nehalemrwessel
                                                                                              nehalemsavantu
                                                                                              nehalemsavantu
                                                                                            PSU sizes.Anon
                                                                                              PSU sizes.Doug Siebert
                                                                                                PSU sizes.Salvatore De Dominicis
                                                                                                  PSU sizes.rwessel
                                                                                                PSU sizes.Gabriele Svelto
                                                                                                  PSU sizes.Doug Siebert
                                                                                                PSU sizes.a reader
                                                                                                  PSU sizes.Doug Siebert
                                                                                                    PSU sizes.a reader
                                                                                                PSU sizes.John Simon
                                                                                              PSU sizes.Jukka Larja
                                                                                                PSU sizes.RagingDragon
                                                                                                  PSU sizes.a reader
                                                                                                    PSU sizes.RagingDragon
                                                                                                  PSU sizes.Anon
                                                                                                    PSU sizes.RagingDragon
                                                                            An Example...Jukka Larja
                                                                              An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                                An Example...Mark Christiansen
                                                                                  An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                                An Example...Jukka Larja
                                                                                  An Example...RagingDragon
                                                                            Need further elaboration?
                                                                              Need further elaborationLinus Torvalds
                                                                                Need further elaboration?
                                                                                  Need further elaborationiz
                                                                                    Need further elaboration?
                                                                                      Need further elaborationiz
                                                                          An Example...mpx
                                                                            An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                                                              An Example...Andi Kleen
                                                                    An Example...mpx
                                                            An Example...anon
                                                  Types of parallelismDavid Kanter
                                        An Example...Anonymous
                                      An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                        An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                        An Example...Anonymous
                                          An Example...Linus Torvalds
                                            Linus: Parallerising GIT.Jouni Osmala
                                              Linus: Parallerising GIT._Arthur
                                                Linus: Parallerising GIT.Linus Torvalds
                                                  Enterprise softwareRagingDragon
                                            dependency and parallelismhobold
                                    An Example...portlander
                                An Example...Anon
                                  An Example...anon
                                An Example...Laszlo Ersek
                                  An Example...hobold
                                    An Example...Laszlo Ersek
                                      An Example...hobold
                                        An Example...Anonymous
                              Linus is wrong here it would seem..Anonymous
                                Linus is wrong here it would seem..Andi Kleen
                                Linus is wrong here it would seem .. actually not Mark Roulo
                                  Linus is wrong here it would seem .. actually not Mark Christiansen
                                    The key factor for running in parallel is dependancies ...Mark Roulo
                                      The key factor for running in parallel is dependancies ...Doug Siebert
                                        The key factor for running in parallel is dependancies ...Emil Briggs
                                    Linus is wrong here it would seem .. actually not Anonymous
                                  Linus is wrong here it would seem .. actually not Anonymous
                            An Example...hobold
                        An Example...Gabriele Svelto
                          An Example...anon
                      An Example...Anonymous
                        An Example...a reader
                          An Example...Anon
                            An Example...a reader
                      An Example...RagingDragon
                  Too many coresanon
                    Too many coresVincent Diepeveen
                      Too many coresanon
                        Too many coresVincent Diepeveen
                  paper on "The Problem With Threads"Richard Cownie
                    paper on "The Problem With Threads"anon
                      paper on "The Problem With Threads"Michael S
                        paper on "The Problem With Threads"Linus Torvalds
                          paper on "The Problem With Threads"Richard Cownie
                            paper on "The Problem With Threads"Gian-Carlo Pascutto
                      paper on "The Problem With Threads"Richard Cownie
                        paper on "The Problem With Threads"anon
                          paper on "The Problem With Threads"Gian-Carlo Pascutto
                            How many cores at what performance?Jukka Larja
                              How many cores at what performance?Gian-Carlo Pascutto
                          paper on "The Problem With Threads"Richard Cownie
                            paper on "The Problem With Threads"anon
                              paper on "The Problem With Threads"Richard Cownie
                                paper on "The Problem With Threads"anon
                              About program "correctness"?
                                About program "correctness"Richard Cownie
                                  About program "correctness"?
                                    About program "correctness"Owen Mackwood
                                      About program "correctness"?
                                        About program "correctness"Owen Mackwood
                                          About program "correctness"a reader
                                    About program "correctness"RagingDragon
                                About program "correctness"michael
                                  About program "correctness"Richard Cownie
                                    About program "correctness"iz
                                      About program "correctness"Richard Cownie
                                      About program "correctness"?
                                        About program "correctness"iz
                                          About program "correctness"iz
                                          About program "correctness"?
                                            About program "correctness"michael
                                              About program "correctness"?
                                                About program "correctness"iz
                                          About program "correctness"A.N.Onymous
                                            About program "correctness"iz
                                About program "correctness"Owen Mackwood
                                  About program "correctness"Richard Cownie
                                    TangentialDavid Kanter
                                      TangentialRichard Cownie
                                      pentium fdiv bug historyRichard Cownie
                                        pentium fdiv bug historyUngo
                                          pentium fdiv bug historyanonymous
                                            pentium fdiv bug history - read the bookDavid Kanter
                                              pentium fdiv bug history - the best partanonib
                                                pentium fdiv bug history - the best partDavid Kanter
                                  About program "correctness"mpx
                      Threading programs & Old programsRob Thorpe
                        Threading programs & Old programsJukka Larja
                          Threading programs & Old programsAndi Kleen
                            Threading programs & Old programsRichard Cownie
                            Threading programs & Old programsJukka Larja
                              Threading programs & Old programsJouni Osmala
                                Future many-core machinesGabriele Svelto
                                Threading programs & Old programsMark Christiansen
                                  Threading programs & Old programsRob Thorpe
                          Threading programs & Old programsRichard Cownie
                            Threading programs & Old programskoby m.
                              Threading programs & Old programsDavid Kanter
                                Threading programs & Old programskoby m.
                                  Threading programs & Old programsRagingDragon
                                    Threading programs & Old programsRagingDragon
                                Threading programs & Old programsRichard Cownie
                              Threading programs & Old programsRichard Cownie
                          Threading programs & Old programsRob Thorpe